Open Mike

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Re: Open Mike

Post by Ale » 2020-09-03 17:38, Thursday

....intimately speaking it was enough of a "casus belli" :) in some past days but we are (quasi) civilised now and it will be solved in such manner as is usual among former neighbors and countries with long diplomatic ties :yes

most seriously and besides I already talked of importance of trade and export partners many posts above, so it's also important to know that Bulgarian-Greek (for example) mutual trade numbers are significantly higher etc. Sometimes it pushes foreign policy - like in our imperial days when trade with Greece was very low, while we were buying and selling a lot to Italian mainland as Dante confirmed buying himself stuff in market with our dinars :) But forget about more savage times, my admiration to imperial figures has nothing to do with modern Greece and Greek people...

Since it's interesting today one map, not the most recent but things are updated every couple of years... but relatively accurate. it shows all our export partners and recent growth in numbers in dark blue, while red states are those with (recent, could be changing as we speak) decline of imports from us - not to be mixed with surplus and deficit I talked before ; blue are stable and dark grey countries are - i suppose - not importing anything from us Cuba, Venezuela, Belgium (?), Greenland, Papua New Guinea among others, so a lot of work for ambasadors in Greenland and elsewhere....

so - if trade is to be all and above all then we are most likely to have next war with one of dark grey nations, so consider :lol ... do say if I missuse this thread - I'm finishing anyway - but to me it's fun, interesting and educative (when bored)

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A Vicious Cycle...

Post by HexCode » 2020-10-30 09:37, Friday

A vicious cycle (also known as a vicious circle) is when a chain of negative events reinforce themselves. The situation spirals in a downward loop, becoming increasingly worse with time.

Bureaucracies...

Laziness reinforces incompetence.
Incompetence reinforces corruption.
Corruption reinforces laziness.
and so on and so forth...

Short, sweet and to the point ! :ihope :)

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Re: Open Mike

Post by lvjtn » 2020-11-17 14:29, Tuesday

fyi, if you don't understand why vast majority of hungarian people support our government against the viertes reich (formerly known: european union) and its veto for the 7y budget: what we don' want is very simple: the christianfobic, nation-fobic, regional sovereignty-fobic international bolshevism is not welcome here. we don't need regulations forcing us to accept any biological man should be allowed to enter the ladies' room what was once intended to be a safe place for women (with vagina, etc.). we don't want to let the international bolshevism destroying our culture, christian background, history, national heritage and legacy, etc.

i absolutely understand, why the european red, green, pink, etc. parties demand everybody following the nationless, faithless, cultureless internationalism and calling their political agenda the "rule of law", but what happened with the so called conservative parties? the political right is hopelessly defeated west to the elbe? :dunno

fyi2: i'm wondering how succesful the european queer-lobby would be forcing the islamic schools to accept openly lgtbq+ people as students :thud

fyi3: i've read a few related articles in "western" newspapers, and most of them wonder: "but now the poles and hungarians will get less money too". omg, you really don't know the mentality of the former eastern bloc :no people living these barbarian dragons' land don't care about how rich they are, they only care about how wealthy they are compared to other people (sociologically speaking the relative economical status matters). hungarian people won't be upset if they become poorer until the other european nations lose more. there is an exact saying about it: "let the neighbor's cow die!" according to a joke, a peasant answered this to a fairy what his/her wish would be, and it represent the "eastern" mentality 99% correctly

nevermind, i have no hope, hungary will be fucked up and kicked out of the eu, sooner or later, but we are used to the lost revolutions, so our the fifteen minutes matter too :evil
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Civilizational Addiction...

Post by HexCode » 2020-11-19 23:34, Thursday

lvjtn wrote:
2020-11-17 14:29, Tuesday
i've read a few related articles in "western" newspapers, and most of them wonder: "but now the Poles and Hungarians will get less money too". omg, you really don't know the mentality of the former eastern bloc people living in these barbarian dragons' land; they don't care about how rich they are, they only care about how wealthy they are compared to other people (sociologically speaking, relative economic status matters). Hungarian people won't be upset if they become poorer as long as the other European nations lose more. There is an exact saying about it: "let the neighbor's cow die!" according to a joke; a peasant answered thus to a fairy asking what his/her wish would be; it represents the "eastern" mentality 99% correctly.
From the mists of time...
As a Turk / Turkish Cypriot, I could easily (?) be perceived as someone having a... nationalist ax to grind. No, this is not so !

Greece provides me with a splendid example of a widespread, historical phenomenon that I shall refer to as "civilizational addiction". Political ideologues invariably focus on either "pull" or "push" factors underlying such phenomena. In general:

1) Many mainstream right-of-center ideologues claim that populations experiencing "addiction" are not victims; rather, they want to better their lives and, hence, consciously adopt new behaviors that are logically consistent with their own notions of betterment...

2) Many mainstream left-of-center ideologues claim that populations are deliberately subjected to "addiction", being victims of sinister machinations. Invariably, such populations are portrayed as naive, gullible and unsophisticated. Hence, they do not really appreciate what is good for them...

Back in the 1970s, many Greeks felt that US policies were oppressing them. The de facto partition of Cyprus made things worse. Even extreme right-wingers openly expressed anti-US sentiments. At the time, large strata in Greek society exhibited acute... "europhilia", perceived as a polar counterweight to the waning "americanophilia". In other words, many Greeks saw "Europe" as a gentle, civilized... liberator compared to the "rough" and "bossy" Americans.

In my opinion, the Greek tragedy is this. They ascribed civilizational importance to a divide that was anything but civilizational. This caused Greeks to enthusiastically imitate the "Western European" lifestyles (via consumerism) as a political stance... Lots of money fell from the "European"... heaven too. Moreover, it was "good" money since it did not come from the... Americans.

Key Assumption ==>

"Europe" can never run out of money. Therefore, the Greeks (as "Europeans") are always entitled to "Europe's" money, no questions asked, no matter what.

Who or what is at "fault" here? Does it even make sense to ask this question?
By the way, I'm of the opinion that the time-honored "right-left" divide is now bereft of either analytical or practical utility. It's post-modernity...

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Re: Civilizational Addiction...

Post by hoza » 2020-11-20 08:32, Friday

By the way, I'm of the opinion that the time-honored "right-left" divide is now bereft of either analytical or practical utility. It's post-modernity...


The new divide is conservative vs. progressive and astonishingly the conservative want to shape the future of the world by technology and the progressive want to keep the world by preventing technology.

:grumpy

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Re: Open Mike

Post by Ale » 2020-11-20 15:41, Friday

pretty clear map and with as clear title, although for sure a bit dated since i found it with title "2015", and that's why England is there... however i'm putting it here more for my point than anything else, but it's interesting per se - like many statistical data usually

my point is, since i hear that some "green countries" now bypassed some "yellow ones" on BDP per capita lists, one should reconsider fundings there. In short do not keep Italy in minus anymore, if they sink who will make us trade surplus. Also, considering their new found positions countries like Czec Empire should now invest more in some who migrated from there not so long ago not poor old Italy ;) ... at least Orban (king of Hungary) whose country is very green there is great pal of our demonarchy :lol

it is known that everything is funny to me, i just put some serious lines to make own points... too bad "son of Dervan" who took "half of people" somewhere around VI century from somewhere around mentioned areas, "going to civilized world of Romans and Greeks" as he said to them is not around to see where are we on the PP lists :lol .... satirical history aside, we are all for some troubles and reconsiderations ahead, but do not worry it was like that since Roman days..... must say except older history do not have much interest in deeper, detailed look at socio-political issues, so if something is not funny in thread from my side (maybe how Greeks slaped us last summer)) just think that my country is great source of satire and political and historical misfortunes/misconceptions, so nice to put in few humoristic lines.

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Re: Open Mike

Post by lvjtn » 2020-11-20 21:47, Friday

HexCode wrote:
2020-11-19 23:34, Thursday
I'm of the opinion that the time-honored "right-left" divide is now bereft of either analytical or practical utility. It's post-modernity...
a few years ago i would have agreed with you. now what i see is the left / proggressive side is exactly the same old furious jacobin movement believing in the fundamental truth of the permanent revolution, and they are sworn enemies of the traditions

if it weren't tragic, it could be funny: those people speak about 'rule of law' who abandoned the 2500y old roman law an follow the patterns and logic of the revolutionary law (introduced by saint-just and vladimir ulyanov): "everebody who is against us must die, sorry be defunded" (which is the very same thing in a more and more consumerized world.

the other side? it seems to ceased to exist. i would say :rip but a few years, and the jacobins will tear down their statues and bulldoze their graveyards

there is only one good news (for me): jacobins are mostly killed, sorry cancelled by their more progressive comrades. the heores of yesterday will be the traitors of tomorrow, like j.k. rowling, the former feminist icon is now a deplorable, untouchable outlow who dared to question the permanent revolution. maybe the trans people who are now the avat-garde of the revolution seem to be the current heroes, but i'm damn sure they will be cursed sooner or later, maybe because they aren't enough gender-fluid and they don't change their identity every single day back and forth... :evil after all, who remember the times before 2000, where gay marriage wasn't legal in any european country..., of course, nobody, there wasn't iphone at those dark medieval times. people eat each other, etc., etc.
Ale wrote:
2020-11-20 15:41, Friday
my country is great source of satire and political and historical misfortunes/misconceptions, so nice to put in few humoristic lines.
my all time favorite writer, sławomir mrożek couldn't agree with you more :)


so sorry for my sentiments. i was only pissed by the complete ignorance by the "western" media as they absolutely couldn't (can't and won't) understand, why voters support viktor orbán in hungary instead of accepting the revolutionary agenda

:howdy
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Re: Open Mike

Post by randowe » 2020-11-20 21:59, Friday

lvjtn wrote:
2020-11-20 21:47, Friday
my all time favorite writer, sławomir mrożek couldn't agree with you more :)
Nice you mention Mrożek. I really liked him when i was younger. Now I've forgotten alomst everything and barely remember the books titels :bonk
While i am at my moms house at the weekend i have to see if i can find the books. I remember a good drama "Love in the Crimea".
Once i heared an radio drama about an strange game of chess, which was the first time i heared Mrożek's name and went to buy the books afterwards.

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Horrible & Wonderful...

Post by HexCode » 2020-11-20 23:20, Friday

Ok, terminology isn't necessarily useless. :)

In my opinion, post-1980, Western Civilization has witnessed a widespread and diffuse struggle between the values and forces of late modernity and post-modernity. Post-modernity's ideology is often being presented as "progressive". On the other hand, late modernity's ways are often judged to be "conservative", even "reactionary".

Whose "progress" and to what purpose ? Well, history's "judgments" are of necessity retrospective and certainly not without explicit / implicit bias. It seems to me that, anthropologically speaking, some humans are prone to wishing and seeking radical departures from the status quo while others are fearful of such intentions, efforts and deeds. End result ? Perennial socioeconomic and sociocultural acrimony and conflict.

Last but not least, today's "winners" are likely to be tomorrow's "losers" and vice versa (e.g., revolution vs. counter-revolution). Otherwise human life wouldn't be so horribly and wonderfully... interesting. :2cents

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Re: Horrible & Wonderful...

Post by hoza » 2020-11-21 07:43, Saturday

HexCode wrote:
2020-11-20 23:20, Friday
It seems to me that, anthropologically speaking, some humans are prone to wishing and seeking radical departures from the status quo while others are fearful of such intentions, efforts and deeds.

The most astonishing is that the division in these two sort of humans seems to be relatively independent of their present personal situation and their expected personal future at least in the developed part of the world. :grumpy

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Re: Open Mike

Post by Ale » 2020-11-21 13:07, Saturday

yes, small correction to my posts - they were so diverse and factful to keep track of all said - from site I used a lot for trade numbers. Updated things but still not freshest and are pre corona ones... So it is about Romania - according to international site update which may or may not be 100% true - it is our 4th biggest importer, not really as I described. Their imports made biggest "boom" year, year and a half ago...

more for domestic public and fellow readers in San Marino, interesting fact... North Macedonia (aka West Bulgaria, aka South Serbia))* beats us in imports to Germany (biggest importer for both) for almost a billion ;) think about it but we import much more generally, being stronk


* more for international public and fellow readers in San Marino, that's how fra Mauro described Macedonia in one of most famous maps of medieval world.... I gave example of Oliver, our imperial noble, whose church is now "Macedonian church" and so - however for us it is finished story, not some significant minority there and we recognize them under any name they chose :)

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Re: Open Mike

Post by Ale » 2020-11-21 23:34, Saturday

look i'm not punching any particular country here, all fact are there to see for all, i'm doing it only for fun and interesting facts for out readers in (very friendly) San Marino - and am finishing now because game of numbers and all sort of data could be presented without stop...

so interesting facts - 1.) Serbia and Croatia only (as they are now) exports together top Greece 2.) Serbia and Slovenia only exports top/equal Romanian etc. etc. etc

generally, looking like that point is that even after all troubles we are not so "bad" industrially or raw materially in greater region. Conclusion, in any combo Serbia strong :) ....not to mention (not included in any of our top 5 export countries) military industry we had... so yes on Balkans from Greece to Hungary i'm not thinking that we are so backwarded in industrial way, more in social :lol With Italian help our empire will rise again :yes

i finished this, but do not exclude chance to jerk around with numbers sometimes, hope it is interesting to foreigners

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Evolutionary Totalitarianism

Post by HexCode » 2020-11-22 06:59, Sunday

:howdy Hey Csaba,

You've made many references to the French Revolution. Every revolution is bound to arrogantly overextend itself, if not actually have many of its children for lunch... Moreover, the Counter-Revolution is always in the cards. Yes, the French Revolution did exhibit totalitarian tendencies. Such tendencies inevitably led to the Terror and, ultimately, to Napoleon's Caesarism.

Totalitarianism doesn't necessarily require some revolution to take hold. In fact, most relatively successful totalitarianisms are, well, quite evolutionary. To boot, when sophisticated, they gradually employ diverse, predominantly indirect methods to achieve their goals. The story of the slowly boiling frog is rather well known.

Elites can be bought as well as discarded; ditto for "peoples". In an earlier post of mine I made references to Greece. Other contemporary examples are a dime a dozen. Anthropologically speaking, the biblical story of the Golden Calf shouldn't be surprising. You see, Moses was "away" and the fear of the pursuing Egyptian armies had abated. Hence, the "people" etc...
Last edited by HexCode on 2020-11-23 08:53, Monday, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Open Mike

Post by lvjtn » 2020-11-22 09:36, Sunday

Ale wrote:
2020-11-21 23:34, Saturday
look i'm not punching any particular country here, all fact are there to see for all, i'm doing it only for fun and interesting facts
don't worry, regular readers of this forum and especially this thread won't be insulted by seeing their own countries have corrupt political elite who tend to spread lies and conflicts based on false facts. e.g. i know my own country and her political elite, i'm dead sure most of them would deserve a few years long trip to the jail... i can tell you stories how eu moneys were stolen in the past years, but of course, storie can be cited from each countries (e.g. look the so financially purist and devoted constitutional germany, promoter of the new order, torch of the revolution for the nationless ganzeuropa: how much money was stalen while building the new berlin airport? how many car companies bribed the eu inspectors?) so for me, stealing money is not important. that's always happened and will happen. the human nature is greedy and corrupt :whatever so don't stop posting mocking data :yes
HexCode wrote:
2020-11-22 06:59, Sunday
Totalitarianism doesn't necessarily require some revolution to take hold.
you are absolutely right. of course :)

first of all, you always can make a few steps back and see the theoretical frameworks, the sociological, political, etc. frameworks of the human conflicts. and it's interesting, as you wrote previously.

for me, these stories are more interesting from a very simple personal aspect: i'm invovled. and when i was young, i thought "okay, we learnt about the french revolition, the bolshevik coup, so we can see the patterns now, and we won't let it happen again". yep, that naive i was :lol

so for me, the jacobin / bolshevik mentality itsels is what is interesting / important. it's very special, because it's not only revolutionary, but the founding stone of their faith is the concept of the permanent revolution. their revolution has not a certain goal what they want to achieve and realize. their goal is the revolution itself. and that's very scary for me: living in an eu, where no cultural habit, political or religional belief, national institution, historically evolved tradition, way of life, etc. is safe: everything can be furiously attacked by the revolution, and basically nobody is aware of the consequences: i'm not worried about totalianiarism, i'm worried about the violence (maybe not physical, this time, hopefully) and intolerance what are collaterals of every revolution :2cents it's impossible to make a deal with a permanent revolution, it's always thirtsy for fresh blood and new enemies. maybe italy, spain, ireland, greece, bulgaria, etc. are happy to see the punishment of the rebel hungary and they don't think about that they may be the next victims of the new financial guillotine* what is introduced now. "yep that was funny to see the beheaded Marie Antoinette, the disliked austrian bench, but who thought we might be the next ones..."

* btw. the slovenian prime minister wrote an excellent article about it:
Those of us who have spent part of our lives under totalitarian regimes know that deviation from reality begins when processes or institutions are given names that mean the exact opposite of their essence.

(...)

The ‘rule of law’ means that disputes are decided by an independent court and not by a political majority in any other institution.
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Re: Open Mike

Post by hoza » 2020-11-22 09:45, Sunday

yes George Orwell and the war ministry was name ministry for peace :) :grumpy

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Re: Open Mike

Post by Ale » 2020-11-22 18:53, Sunday

:lol ultimately not so important but now Romania and Ukraine were mixed, i had 10 tabs opened...

so let me change above non crucial for the point statement to "Serbia and Slovenia together exports top Ukraine" :) still "impressive" as we are talking about less than 10 millions versus 40 millions population... but do not think bad about Ukrainians, we know them, we lived there about 2000 years ago... remember them as good kids, usually we were the troublemakers :)

Romanian exports are bigger, hope my post and point even without mistake makes sense and sorry again to one of biggest trade partners Romania, twice :yes .... see all later with some topic.

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Hubristic Acceleration...

Post by HexCode » 2020-11-22 23:51, Sunday

lvjtn wrote:
2020-11-22 09:36, Sunday
... the Jacobin / Bolshevik mentality itself is what is interesting / important. It's very special because it's not only revolutionary; the founding stone of their faith is the concept of the permanent revolution. Their revolution has not a certain goal they want to achieve and realize. Their goal is the revolution itself and that's very scary . . . no cultural habit, political or religious belief, national institution, historically evolved tradition, way of life, etc. is safe: everything can be furiously attacked by the revolution and basically nobody is aware of the consequences . . . it's impossible to make a deal with a permanent revolution; it's always thirsty for fresh blood and new enemies ...
Revolutions... worth their salt invariably sport doctrines of universalist appeal; at least, aspirationally. It's this inherent universalism that propels them forward. To this effect, permanent expansion is a sine qua non. If the bicyclist were to ever stop pedaling, well, the glorious ride would be over. Continual successful expansion doesn't sate a universalist revolution's appetite. Quite the contrary; it arrogantly and recklessly ever accelerates it. All "reactionary" obstacles "must" be overcome, come hell or high water. Eventually, the revolution's ideology becomes a sworn enemy of a big chunk of socioeconomic and sociocultural reality. When this happens, the universalist revolution's days are numbered...

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Re: Open Mike

Post by Ale » 2020-11-25 13:46, Wednesday

ultimately - while i even dislike world of money and greed (one can say that fact that we are exporting Italian cars to Italians is greedy part, while for us is beneficial until "Ferrari" changes country)) still think that economy and such cooperation is best way of cooperation - philosophy and some "principles" in world of humans are always incomplete, one-sided or let me say, weak in "test of endurance"...

look like this, for example - I am great fan of our "only" medieval emperor on first place for some ideas and early signs of "rule of law" in our biggest medieval law monument and sort of "constitution". There are other reasons as well and vision of strong country with economical backbone in cooperation with "heretic" Venice (for example) is good one.... however in other nations - you can take Albanians as mere example - they do not see it like I do, they see expansion and conquest.... etc. etc Mehmed Turkish sultan? uhmmm...

other example, now one Bosnian Serb and Austrian politician are in polemics - for the 100th time :lol - about "European values" and again i'm not so sure that both are even closely close to who is right in what constitutes genocide and what mass murder or massacre, like Franz Böhme responsible for Kragujevac genocide/massacre lying in Austrian church or many mass killings of Serb civilians, PoWs in Serbia and in Herzegovina in ww1 by AH troops... And how emperor Franz and his successor rate in "chain of command" ;) fruitless and incomplete...

i'm not for any discussion except for good joke or interesting historical fact or finding, i put it merely (like Hex) to show how "philosophical debate" can be endless and i was bored in moment of posting... so did you know - you take all countries from Greece to Hungary (them and Romania) included, you add Turkey and whole sum of their export values is less than Italian one.... and Italy is not even continental idustrial "powerhouse" :lol

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