historical photos and similar

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Ale
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historical photos and similar

Post by Ale » 2021-02-26 17:52, Friday

so - longish one for start, but if i add more it will be few pics usually - few days ago looking for else, found some collection from our military archives about battles/siege of Edirne/Adrianople in first Balkan war. some selected to show how military enginering/trench systems, battles and life looked on Serbian side... of course details known and mainly Bulgarian operation, hence i think that these might be "rare photos" (surely Turkish historians have some, they have museum in city...).

i'm not modern history researcher/interesent just as opening here and someone may find them as something new.... no idea why war was fought and what our folks were doing there, btw :) ...mentioning Turkish history lovers (i read that they renewed interest in history recently) if you happen to be one - do look at last 3-4 posts in "translations" thread here, please. Location and combatants are "similar" (just earlier "cooler") but era drasticaly different, maybe you can add something to my investigations... ; (if not, welcome anyway)

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Ale
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Re: historical photos and similar

Post by Ale » 2021-03-01 15:22, Monday

....on that subject, there is that story - maybe myth maybe truth, maybe half of both - how one of the most important commanders of Edirne/Adrianople "Turkish" forces, Mehmed Şükrü Pasha, was captured first by Bulgarians but on own request he was "released" by them to surrender to Serbs too and gave sabre to one of our officers involved ; ... all my recent stories combined, from medieval via Miloš, to Ottoman army textbooks and Ataturk times, show that there was always some at least minimal respect and no extreme hate on their side towards us.

anyway, another subject today i said thread is undecided by nature, for stories and photos, or about nothing... One of the probably most interesting foreign medals in our collection as Serbia alone, if not the most interesting (Order of dragon founder badge was interesting but it was given by neighbouring ruler)) - are royal order of Kamehameha I and royal order of Kalakaua I (on pic without collar). In its highest and rarest grade both were awarded to our first modern king Milan in 1882/83, probably by Hawaii king himself, or envoys, not clear. Order of the lion and the sun from Persia is also interesting in his collection, but Hawaii medals best pieces and nice story, due to being among few sovereign nations of the times. While king Kalakaua medals were given as sign of "friendship" in Europe, Persian medal to foreigners for "distinguished services to Persia", but probably not :) ...in Hawaii medal case one of the few non-European medals we and Japanese imperials for example had in collection, nice.

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Ale
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Re: historical photos and similar

Post by Ale » 2021-03-02 13:09, Tuesday

it is cute story, very unusual, so another article about Serbo-Hawaii ties :) did proper research and while Royal order of Kamehameha I was often awarded to many European royals, unusual part is that Order of Kalakaua was rarely awarded to monarchs, as well as royal order of Kapiolani given to our queen making them both rare in that sense. Some other in our state also recieved Hawaii orders during the visit by royal envoy Curtis P. Iaukea in 1883... however strange part is that Order of Kalakaua was given to Milan in 1882, before any visit and wasn't ususal gift to monarchs, so there is theory that, as non king, Milan maybe met king Kalakaua during his tour year before, but this is sourceless...

other theories are that Hawaii king Kalakaua heard of Serbia via some "Italian" (of Croat paternal origin likely) origin captain who married into their royal family and influenced politics partly. This one is very unlikely because said person was born in America and probably never heard of Serbia. Another one is that interest in Hawaii was due to Milan's American lovers (met in Paris before), some American mercenaries in previous wars in Serbia or just via queen Natalia ties with other monarchs and families in Germany etc. In any way, was unusual decision and interest in that faraway and exotic kingdom with rare diplomatic honours. Our orders and medals are kept in Hawaii palace museum, great addition and piece of history.

checked also "The Pacific commercial advertiser", papers in Hawaii already highly US-influenced by then and on way to annexation, in one of mentioned 1883 editions and found indeed short mentions in few places. Give a pic from article I find interesting, underlined by me... Belgrade was mentioned as "city of palaces" :lol and visits as one to "great states"... laugh is due to Belgrade being considered as one of the ugliest capitals in Europe by Europeans and many Serbs, though Milan was building some courts around. All in all, unusual, enigmatic to why Belgrade was chosen as place to spend few days by Hawaii envoys and why so many medals here, but as whole nice story I like very much.... i often say one can find some of the most romantic or heroic/respectful lines regarding our history in the east - from Ottomans via Timur to, as seen, Persia or kingdom of Hawaii :) .... king Milan is often seen as extravagant, unfavorable, but like his realtive Miloš, "master of intrigues" and skillful player in many fields. Besides all generals who showed their skills during king Peter rule, were Milan's "creations"... as for Hawaii - while that would be 0,01 % of population - visitor from here should mention that we had great ties once and play on card of our orders/medals and letters being in their museums, best story ever in landlocked country :)

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Re: historical photos and similar

Post by Ale » 2021-03-05 00:16, Friday

...nothing about nothing, so here's another unimportant pic before i abandon this "another great idea" :lol (hope those talking games at least will post something in pub))

not sure if it's 100% correct, could be Salonika or anywhere else as long a I can say :) but king Aleksandar O. during a visit to Hilanadar, Mount Athos 1896. Group pic with Ottoman officers somewhere. Unlike in previous centuries, not only declarative but in reality they tried seriously to defend our monasteries in the second half of XIX c until final days of their empire, not only where it was "visible" but including military presence around our churches near Serbia borders north, Dečani for example had protection unit etc.... but no excuse for Dušan's church few centuries earlier :)

"unpopular king" was touring and on way to first modern Olympics in Athens, where he was, some say, only ruler present although we had no olympic team nor sportists... with due respect, no idea who misters Turk officers are and that's why i can't confirm where photo was taken - one on the left is high ranked - but this pic is often shared as then major Mišić, future general and "duke", was in delegation, in second row second from the left, looking to our right... since this particular king is mentioned it is myth that history would be much/any different if he ruled longer - in sense that we would not join Balkan war. But this pic i wanted to share here, along with one of king Peter's visit to Stambol as evidence of Turks having manners to us in very uneasy situation for them, trying to reform "dead man" ; ...good night.

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Re: historical photos and similar

Post by Ale » 2021-03-05 23:01, Friday

...it is interesting that "Macedonian" name "Aleksandar" wasn't popular at all in our middle ages and one can't find high nobility with that name from years circa 800-1450, almost at all safe to say... since XIX c it was very popular as seen esp. among ruler's kids and wider. Looks like folks were reading lots of "Alexandrides" during period of no state, or something with greater Greek influence during times ; ...nonetheless such is fact about that name presence here.

since i touched Pacific region lets share this, just small slices of larger maps, from Japan. one can find them online fast via search if collector, i post it only to see how such distant land and culture (but friendly almost as Hawaii) presented us on "satirical maps" during ww1 era, it was popular to draw them during XIX c and the war, I collected many (i also like modern satirical maps). First is animalistic - for long i tried to determine what animal we are and concluded it must be porcupine or hedgehog, nice one. Italy is a bat, btw... Second not so interesting as picture (Japan was in war with Germany)) I post it because I noticed unusual Japanese spellings of "Bergrad" (Belgrade) and "Burogarie" (Bulgaria), certainly something lingustical, simplier to pronounce to them, or... interesting maps hence add here, but no much more - as always my posts are local-oriented (and about Turkey, goes without mention) but that's all i have to offer as interesting details and hobbies but not the place... : )

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