OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.99.RC10 (13-May-2020))

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LuisGuzman
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by LuisGuzman » 2019-12-02 18:37, Monday

sympatyk wrote:
2019-12-02 18:21, Monday
:howdy
Although late, I also confirm that it works with 8bit color
Through this discussion, I learned about the inspect_leader file and its properties
Thank
Thank you a lot Grzegorz :banana
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by Parabellum » 2019-12-09 19:10, Monday

i downloaded the 0.93.3.0, also today the newest cc-pack.
From the cc22 to cc60 I get the error message ...
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... and the campaigns will not start.
What am I doing wrong?

Edit:
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the missing files are not found on the web
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by lvjtn » 2019-12-09 19:24, Monday

Parabellum wrote:
2019-12-09 19:10, Monday
What am I doing wrong?
nothing. it seems apparently the old *.map files aren't available. maybe the ftp of the mapfinder is offline? :dunno

i have 1660 old-format *.map files in my local copy, if Luis agrees to upload them to the new site, it's not a problem to store them among the *.jpg files
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by LuisGuzman » 2019-12-09 20:05, Monday

:huh

I tested to delete chir.map and to check EFILE_CC22AK campaign with 0.93.3.0, and I got chir.map downloaded

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I already host 1674 .map files including all stock PG2 plus ...

Maybe you could not access my server at that time :dunno
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by sympatyk » 2019-12-09 20:13, Monday

:howdy
Excuse me
* .map files - are they downloaded automatically?
For me, OpenGeneral has a folder - MAPFILES - and there are all * .map files and * .mapx files there

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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by LuisGuzman » 2019-12-09 20:19, Monday

sympatyk wrote:
2019-12-09 20:13, Monday
:howdy
Excuse me
* .map files - are they downloaded automatically?
For me, OpenGeneral has a folder - MAPFILES - and there are all * .map files and * .mapx files there
Yes .map files not found in MAP nor MAPFILES folders, are checked and downloaded (if found) into main MAP folder.
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by Parabellum » 2019-12-09 20:20, Monday

LuisGuzman wrote:
2019-12-09 20:05, Monday
...
Maybe you could not access my server at that time :dunno
I have had the problem for a few days, but it was not virulent because I wanted to end the CC21 first.
That's why I launched now CC64 because it was the next playable campaign where the automatic downlod worked.
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by lvjtn » 2019-12-09 20:30, Monday

LuisGuzman wrote:
2019-12-09 20:05, Monday
Maybe you could not access my server at that time :dunno
i removed all *.map from my MAP folder, and opengen can't dl any of them for cc01-cc53. right now. while i can read the http of your site
Parabellum wrote:
2019-12-09 20:20, Monday
That's why I launched now CC64 because it was the next playable campaign where the automatic downlod worked.
there is no *map file in cc64, that can be the explanation :)
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by Parabellum » 2019-12-09 21:19, Monday

lvjtn wrote:
2019-12-09 20:30, Monday
...
Parabellum wrote:
2019-12-09 20:20, Monday
That's why I launched now CC64 because it was the next playable campaign where the automatic downlod worked.
there is no *map file in cc64, that can be the explanation :)
:o
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by mythos » 2019-12-16 13:59, Monday

Hola Luis :howdy
LuisGuzman wrote:
2019-12-16 10:11, Monday
Thanks for the savegame. [..]

Actually it doesn't hang, it is only that the AI takes 15 minutes (in my PC to) to finish moving its planes.
But the reason - at least in my computer - is because as soon the AI start figuring what to do with its planes, the antivirus starts checking the disk, blocking the CPU for OG ... at least this is what I saw watching the task manager. But no clue for that behavior in this scenario :dunno
I tested with some saves and can confirm: as soon as the AI turn starts, the antivirus launches.
However, it is confusing that this makes the AI turn last so long: the ressource management (on my PC) goes from 10% CPU usage to 18%, the additional RAM usage is negligible (less than 1% ), in short, this should not slow down the turn from the usual 0-5 minutes (i experienced on my Laptop) to now up to 12-15 minutes (with the PC).

It is not everywhere like this. I assume it has something to do with mapsize (the amount of units in-scenario is rather small, ie 30-80), on smaller maps the AI turn is still very fast, on bigger maps it slows down.
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by randowe » 2019-12-16 14:17, Monday

mythos wrote:
2019-12-16 13:59, Monday
It is not everywhere like this. I assume it has something to do with mapsize (the amount of units in-scenario is rather small, ie 30-80), on smaller maps the AI turn is still very fast, on bigger maps it slows down.
Could you please specify? The map size in this case is "standart" size and the whole SSBDM campaign uses only those maps with up to 44x38 Hex. So that should not be a problem :huh

(I only ask because it would be interesting to know. I mean, people play on 5k XXL maps and it does not take 15 minutes for the AI to move... :dunno )

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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by mythos » 2019-12-16 15:40, Monday

Short turn times
I played CC1 last month. All scenarios (maps + ## of units) are rather small. All turns played at "normal" speed. IIRC.
I also played the early part of G35 (first 7 scenarios), same as the above.
I also played first 2 scenarios of CC18, same as the above. IE, Kishinev map is 44*38 (? 43*37), with 100 units in my case.

Medium turn times
I have CC6 installed, so i tried first scenario (Stalingrad). A total of 93 units, map size 43*37. AI turns take 3-5 minutes. This is not "normal" in the context.
Stalingrad always looked to be bigger to me, but apparently it is as large as Kishinev :o

Long turn times
Finally i tried scenario 8 (Seoul) of G35. A total of 103 units in my case, map size 70*59 (?). AI turns take more than 10 minutes.
I cannot say for sure how long a turn should take in this case, but 10+ minutes doesn't resemble "normality" in my memory.



Since Stalingrad is a bit bigger (at least it felt like this) and Seoul is a lot bigger than usual, i thought the issue is connected to map size (as ## of units didn't seem to be the problem), sorry if this was misleading.
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by randowe » 2019-12-16 16:21, Monday

So in your case Kishinev and Stalingrad have nearly the same map size and nearly the same number of units but the AI turn time is much different.
You wrote Stalingrad "feels" bigger but in fact the map is the same size or a bit smaller than Kishinev!
Anyway, i don't think one row/column of hex makes a difference.
Sure, large maps need more time, but i played and finished the G35 Delta Force campaign in few days and none of the AI turns took 10 minutes. And there are several XXL maps in this campaign. So i guess AI turn time varies a lot between different players/computers/laptops.

But this has nothing to do with the case of the certain SSBDM scenario which makes the anti virus scanner work :dunno

Sorry, but i don't understand ( :bonk me) how these two events( #1. virus scanner starts) and (#2. your slow turn time in other campaigns) are connected.

I just write here - as a scenario builder - to get to know what happened to the certain SSBDM scenario and to avoid any bug or whatever leads to this event to occur. Sorry in advance if i did express myself badly :lol :ihope

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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by mythos » 2019-12-16 16:50, Monday

randowe wrote:
2019-12-16 16:21, Monday
But this has nothing to do with the case of the certain SSBDM scenario which makes the anti virus scanner work :dunno
Sorry if i wasn't clear:
- CC6
- CC18
- G35
no matter where, the antivir starts on all scenarios i tried.
It is just that at Stalingrad and especially at Seoul the AI slows down.


randowe wrote:
2019-12-16 16:21, Monday
Sorry, but i don't understand ( :bonk me) how these two events( #1. virus scanner starts) and (#2. your slow turn time in other campaigns) are connected.
No problem, i don't understand either :fused
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by mythos » 2019-12-17 07:45, Tuesday

Hola Luis :howdy

More testdata based on CC6 Scen#1 and Gustlik's G35 Scen#8.


Base AI time for first turn
CC6 = 5 minutes
G35 = 14 minutes


If internet connection is disabled
CC6 = 4 minutes
G35 = 11 minutes


If additionally no units are embarked in non-organic TPT
CC6 = 3 minutes (8 NTP - all on player :dunno side)
G35 = 9 minutes (2x ATP, 1xNTP - all on AI side)
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by mythos » 2019-12-17 08:41, Tuesday

Hola Luis :howdy

In addition to the above, i come to the conclusion that this also is a harddrive issue.

To clarify, my setup is
- harddrive 1 = (internal/SATA). Includes only Operating System and base Programmes
- harddrive 2 = (external/USB). Includes all games and extra Programmes

I now installed OG to harddrive 1, and (since it was the "slowest" testdata) tried G35 Scen#8 again.

With active internet connection and
- no units embarked in non-organic TPT the AI needs 1-1,5 minutes to process its turn
- (AI) units embarked in non-organic TPT the AI needs approximately 2 minutes to process its turn


I guess using an external harddrive (which itself is slower in the first place) fires up the antivir and slows down the game.
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by LuisGuzman » 2019-12-18 09:43, Wednesday

Sorry for delay, but I was travelling for business.

One thing I forgot to mention, which can heavily affect the time if the disk where OG is installed is not fast enough is to keep enabled the log files (AI, xlog and/or sounds logs) as it forces OG to write to disk constantly (despite increases the CPU used by the antivirus as that was my first experience).

Regarding antivirus,l I've checked other games and all I tested raise the antivirus too. Obviously the amount of CPU used is high when the game and every time the scenario starts, because many files are loaded, after that it decreases.

Regarding the map size I agree it is not a direct relation between map size and time to play the AI turn.
It is the amount of possible hexes to move which makes a difference, so for example scenarios with many planes takes longer than scenarios with 150-300 units with most movement allowance being 3-10 MP and only a few with 25-30 MP.
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by mythos » 2019-12-18 13:20, Wednesday

:gracias Luis :bow

I had disabled logging a while ago. I guess for me the "bottleneck" was the data transfer via USB.
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by lvjtn » 2019-12-20 21:54, Friday

there is a bug in 0.93.3.9.test: depot (supply) unit doesn't resupply those units which moved OR FIRED :shocked during the scenario but ended their movement near the depot unit. units should be resupplied in both cases

the test files are on their way

edit: there is a chance it's related to terrain(ex).txt, but let's wait Luis investigating it
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by Bombast the Blue » 2019-12-23 13:56, Monday

A completely non functional point, I'm afraid, but nonetheless it may have its own kind of importance.
Yesterday I downloaded latest installer, run it, run OG and noticed that small detail in the lower right corner of the screen.
The "go to the forum" banner is pointing to... JP's...

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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by lvjtn » 2019-12-23 14:02, Monday

Bombast the Blue wrote:
2019-12-23 13:56, Monday
The "go to the forum" banner is pointing to... JP's...
it's updated in the test exe. i guess sometimes in january Luis can release a new official exe

+1 the depot unit issue was beacuse of the bad interpretation of the missing $supply_ex, has been also fixed :phew :dance
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by mythos » 2019-12-26 19:45, Thursday

Hola Luis :howdy

There was a bit of confusion about Aggressive Maneuver random/secondary Leader on tanks...
mythos wrote:
2019-12-26 19:42, Thursday
lvjtn wrote:
2019-12-25 22:25, Wednesday
tanks can't get aggressive maneuver as a secondary (non-class related) leader for a long-long-long time
I don't have the save games anymore, but: during the past 2-3 years i still have seen a couple Aggro.Man. raising on tanks. Don't remember for times before that.
Either this change has been rolled back or was accidentally overwritten during an update at some point in time :dunno
... leading to the question: what is the status of raising an Aggro.Man. tank Leader ?
(just to be clear: Aggro.Man. as Class Leader and an additional Aggro.Man as secondary Leader, thus having the Leader Trait twice on a tank)
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by LuisGuzman » 2019-12-27 13:06, Friday

mythos wrote:
2019-12-26 19:45, Thursday
Hola Luis :howdy

There was a bit of confusion about Aggressive Maneuver random/secondary Leader on tanks...
mythos wrote:
2019-12-26 19:42, Thursday
lvjtn wrote:
2019-12-25 22:25, Wednesday
tanks can't get aggressive maneuver as a secondary (non-class related) leader for a long-long-long time
I don't have the save games anymore, but: during the past 2-3 years i still have seen a couple Aggro.Man. raising on tanks. Don't remember for times before that.
Either this change has been rolled back or was accidentally overwritten during an update at some point in time :dunno
... leading to the question: what is the status of raising an Aggro.Man. tank Leader ?
(just to be clear: Aggro.Man. as Class Leader and an additional Aggro.Man as secondary Leader, thus having the Leader Trait twice on a tank)
Unless scenario is set as pg2Mode, the Aggressive Maneuver leader cannot be raised as secondary leader for a tank class unit.
PG2 allowed that, so if scenario is set as Pg2Mode, this restriction is skipped.

So if you find any instance happening that, please use Ctrl+B to send the files suggested to debug.
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by lvjtn » 2019-12-27 20:51, Friday

LuisGuzman wrote:
2019-12-27 13:06, Friday
PG2 allowed that [Aggressive Maneuver for tank class], so if scenario is set as Pg2Mode, this restriction is skipped.
are you sure about this?

i have four reasons why i think "double aggr.man" is not allowed even in pg2 mode:

1. pg2 2.20 was released in 2007, and iirc there were a few things in 2009-2010 when the "new formats" were discussed what were considered as bugs and were "fixed" in opengen 0.60.* i definitely remember a discussion about the "double aggr. man." but it's almost impossible to find anything in jp with such generic keywords. iirc disabling aggr.man for tanks was made before pg2/og modes were created

EDIT2: see below

2. since sept. 2010, the aggressive maneuver and tank class weren't mentioned in the same sentence in the changlelog

3. actually "double aggressive maneuvers" doesn't work, if you edit a savefile in suite: a tank in both pg2 and og modes gets only +1 movement in opengen when having "double aggressive maneuvers"

4. my playtest: i made a quick test file (you can dl it with xlogs and aars from here), what i played 10 times, so i got 150 tank leaders, and got 3-12 leaders from all 19 allowed types (except the 20th, expert camo, which is not allowed for pg2 mode), but got zero "double aggr. man."

EDIT1: the quick stats are these:

Code: Select all

leader		number
Aggressive Attack		12
Battlefield Intelligence		9
Bridging		5
Combat Support		8
Determined Defense		8
Devastating Fire		5
Fire Discipline		12
First Strike		6
Infiltration Tactics		7
Influence		9
Liberator		3
Overwatch		8
Overwhelming Attack		9
Reconnaissance Movement		9
Resilience		8
Shock Tactics		9
Skilled Reconnaissance		12
Street Fighter		6
Superior Maneuver		5

EDIT2: i found the earliest mention of dropping the "double aggr. man" from opengen in "OpenGen - PG2 differences" thread on JP from 17 Dec 2009, 19:53 :
1. Tanks
PG2 allows tanks to get also Aggressive Maneuver as secondary leader attribute, OpenGen don't.
iirc the pg2 vs. og modes were created in 2010 only, when the new formats were invented, so in 2009 this ban should affected the entire opengen :2cents

EDIT3: first mention of the "openized mode" was in august 2010, first "open efile" (olgww2) was mentioned in april 2010, and "new formats" were only planned in march 2010, so i guess the birthday of the "og mode" was somewhere between april and august 2010, at least half year later than the ban of the "double aggr. man"
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by mythos » 2019-12-27 22:25, Friday

LuisGuzman wrote:
2019-12-27 13:06, Friday
Unless scenario is set as pg2Mode, the Aggressive Maneuver leader cannot be raised as secondary leader for a tank class unit.
PG2 allowed that, so if scenario is set as Pg2Mode, this restriction is skipped.

So if you find any instance happening that, please use Ctrl+B to send the files suggested to debug.
:howdy
:gracias Luis :bow

I played (well "started to play" :o ) dozens of old CCs in the past 2-3 years, so i'm sure it's safe to say it occured with those :yep
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by Puma » 2019-12-28 08:23, Saturday

I am playing ssbdm campaign and my battleship got a leader and it was the party leader with extra shot range. I changed it to the correct bs leader and horror, it did not give extra range .
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by LuisGuzman » 2019-12-28 09:50, Saturday

lvjtn wrote:
2019-12-27 20:51, Friday
LuisGuzman wrote:
2019-12-27 13:06, Friday
PG2 allowed that [Aggressive Maneuver for tank class], so if scenario is set as Pg2Mode, this restriction is skipped.
are you sure about this?
Yes, this is how it works now, but I remember that this issue has changed several times.
Effectively the double Aggressive Maneuver for tanks was accepted like a bug and then avoided, but at some point someone asked to allow pg2 scenarios to work like pg2 did, and then the current solution was adopted ... methinks!

BTW: thanks for your exhaustive research :bow
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by LuisGuzman » 2019-12-28 09:56, Saturday

Puma wrote:
2019-12-28 08:23, Saturday
I am playing ssbdm campaign and my battleship got a leader and it was the party leader with extra shot range. I changed it to the correct bs leader and horror, it did not give extra range .
:huh sorry but I don't understand the issue

Which attributes had that first, "party", bs leader and which attributes has the bs leader after editing editing :dunno
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by Puma » 2019-12-28 10:03, Saturday

:doh Arty leader, my mistake.
Not sure what you mean Luis, but when the battleship had the leader awarded it was arty leader and it showed in the game as 8+1 range. When I changed it to any of the new ship leaders that gave +1 range it did show and did not work.
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by LuisGuzman » 2019-12-28 10:41, Saturday

Puma wrote:
2019-12-28 10:03, Saturday
:doh Arty leader, my mistake.
Not sure what you mean Luis, but when the battleship had the leader awarded it was arty leader and it showed in the game as 8+1 range. When I changed it to any of the new ship leaders that gave +1 range it did show and did not work.
Ah, sorry for misunderstanding you :bonk
Could you send me a "savegame" to test why it doesn't work ?
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by Puma » 2019-12-28 10:55, Saturday

Sorry but I am 400km from my computer and will be away for a week.
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by lvjtn » 2019-12-28 11:32, Saturday

LuisGuzman wrote:
2019-12-28 09:50, Saturday
at some point someone asked to allow pg2 scenarios to work like pg2 did, and then the current solution was adopted ... methinks!
well, the "current solution" is that it doesn't work

i made 10x more tests (you can dl the updated zip from here), so after getting 300 tank leaders in pg2 mode, the rarest "liberator" occured 8 times, aggr. man: zero

i also made an edited savefile for cc01, and the conclusion is that "double agrr. man" gives only +1 mp not +2

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moreover: i played literally dozens of pg2 mode campaigns since 2012, and never met with double aggr. man tanks, what i would have reported immediately as a bug. and again not a single hint in the changelogs (i checked the older one from sept. 2010) about it. iirc the debate was between 2008-2010 in the pg2 thread, maybe sooner, but those topics are burried by the spams :(
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by LuisGuzman » 2019-12-28 11:53, Saturday

lvjtn wrote:
2019-12-28 11:32, Saturday
well, the "current solution" is that it doesn't work
:o thanks for the files :notworthy

Well it happens that effectively it doesn't work because after this clause:

Code: Select all

if ( i==22 and cud==UC_TANK and !gPg2Mode )   // skip leader #22 (Aggressive Maneuver) if not Pg2Mode
     continue;
there is bug (actually a typo) disabling completely leader #22 for tanks :bonk

We can accept this or fix to allow Pg2Node to get a double Aggressive Maneuver leader :dunno
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by LuisGuzman » 2019-12-28 11:56, Saturday

Puma wrote:
2019-12-28 10:55, Saturday
Sorry but I am 400km from my computer and will be away for a week.
Never mind, I'll search for any scenario having sea hexes in BaseKorp efile to test.

Edited:
Effectively, assigning in Suite one of the new leaders for Cruiser, BCruiser or BS, the increased range was no used in game. I'm fixing for the next "Test" executable. :yes
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by mythos » 2019-12-28 13:09, Saturday

LuisGuzman wrote:
2019-12-28 11:53, Saturday
We can accept this or fix to allow Pg2Node to get a double Aggressive Maneuver leader :dunno
I never perceived it as a bug in PG2, am pretty sure it did work like this in PG2, and it was accepted and agreed upon that in PG2Mode it would still work as it did in PG2 :dunno

If double Aggro.Man. is a bug, but not having Camo is not (and i could fabricate more examples for most classes), then the pandora's box of Leader Discussion should be opened for a revision of the OG and PG2Mode Leader tables :yuck
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by lvjtn » 2019-12-28 14:19, Saturday

LuisGuzman wrote:
2019-12-28 11:53, Saturday
We can accept this or fix to allow Pg2Node to get a double Aggressive Maneuver leader :dunno
i found the earliest discussion about the double aggr. man from 2003 on the +1200th page of jp's pg2 page, and players disagreed then too

so if you have any idea, how old this code could be, then it would be easier to tell it is an old (more than 5-7-10 years) "feature" or a "bug"

or we can raise a vote :dunno it seems folks like the votes, after all :)
mythos wrote:
2019-12-28 13:09, Saturday
it was accepted and agreed upon that in PG2Mode it would still work as it did in PG2 :dunno
actually, "latest pg2" doesn't work the same as "original pg2" :p just check the changelog of pg2 2.20 released sept. 2007, and see how many things were considered as a bug since the latest 1.02 what was the second and last official release of pg2. so the generic rule was always that: "pg2 mode should work as the latest unofficial pg2 release, except fixing the obvious bugs". the double aggr. man. was always debated, even in pg2 times in 2000s
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by mythos » 2019-12-28 15:23, Saturday

:dunno alright, lets decode the whole thing.

You made a statistical analysis.
As much as you like statistics, you should know the operand [statistical significance].
Your analysis fails on this point:

a) You included 19 of 21 fators. The 2 missing factors are [Camouflage] and [Aggressive Maneuver].
You ran 150 samples. Each factor is a boolean which can either be [0 = didn't raise] or [1 = did raise]. Obviously, we are not interested in fractions, because a [0,2 Leader] cannot raise - thus, we need a sample base that deals with percents, read [21 factors] * [100].
And for a significant response we actually do need a true multiple of [21*100], lets say 5.
As such, in order to meet statistical significance, we would need at least [21*100*5] or 10.500 samples.
Naturally, i don't expect anyone to run that many samples. I only say that your analysis doesn't meet the requirement of "proof".

b) OG version... lets say "instability".
What works in OG Version X might not work in version X+1 or X+2, because something was changed in the code - accidentally, deliberately, or whatever.

Case example:
Gustlik, in the Delta Force campaign, was able to deploy ships in the Seoul scenario (OpenGen 0.93.1.0).
I had the same campaign version, but was not able to deploy ships in Seoul (OpenGen 0.93.3.9.Test).
Something must have gone wrong with the code in between.

Back to the double Aggro.Man, just because with current OG versions it doesn't work in PG2Mode, doesn't mean that it never worked between 2009 and 2019. Keep in mind that many (if not most) AARs made in the timeframe were with OG-Mode.


lvjtn wrote:
2019-12-28 14:19, Saturday
actually, "latest pg2" doesn't work the same as "original pg2" :p just check the changelog of pg2 2.20 released sept. 2007, and see how many things were considered as a bug since the latest 1.02 what was the second and last official release of pg2. so the generic rule was always that: "pg2 mode should work as the latest unofficial pg2 release, except fixing the obvious bugs". the double aggr. man. was always debated, even in pg2 times in 2000s
If you insist on that level of argumentation :dunno
I perceive as bug/inconsistency (no matter if original or latest PG2, or OG's PG2Mode, or OG's OG Mode - whatever of these is applicable):
- [Street Fighter] and [Infiltration Tactics] raising on units with [Ignore Entrenchments] as a bug
- [Mechanized] raising as AD class Leader as a bug (the majority of units in this class cannot even make use of the Leader)
- [Fire Discipline] raising on tanks as a bug (these units have usually so much ammo that it is less than "not needed" )
- [Resilience] [Ferocious Defense] and [Determind Defence] raising on Aty and AD classes as a bug
- [Skilled Recon] not raising on units with [Recon Move] as a bug

I'm sure everyone can add at least 1 point to the list of inconsistencies and perceived bugs.

Without anyone from the original design team, we won't be able to figure out what is an actual/true bug, and what is just "in our opinion" a bug.


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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by lvjtn » 2019-12-28 17:51, Saturday

Chris, i mentioned facts, referred to real events, you just use your heated frustration as "arguments" and you failed to proove anything :whatever

Luis got the point, please read at least his post to see what is the real question
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by mythos » 2019-12-28 19:05, Saturday

As much as i hate fractured posts, i need to now.

lvjtn wrote:
2019-12-28 17:51, Saturday
you just use your heated frustration as "arguments"
:fused frustrated ? :dunno
The only time i was heated was here. In retrospective, "strong rhetoric" would have been the more efficient phrasing.
Otherwise, i used neutral language :ihope to explain/detail my point of view and/or why your point of view isn't very strong either.

lvjtn wrote:
2019-12-28 17:51, Saturday
you failed to proove anything
Ever since Luis cleared everything up, there was no need for me to prove anything.

lvjtn wrote:
2019-12-28 17:51, Saturday
Luis got the point, please read at least his post to see what is the real question
Scroll a bit farther up, i answered to his post.

lvjtn wrote:
2019-12-28 17:51, Saturday
Chris, i mentioned facts, referred to real events
Facts: yes.
But no proofs.

Example, a statistical analysis which leaves out important factors (or maybe better "parameters" ) and/or doesn't include enough samples might be suitable to support a particular point of view. However, due to its inaccuracy it is lacking the significant informative value it needs if it shall act as proof. For more details, please refer to my previous post.

Another example, you refer to discussions led by expert players/modders/coders. I don't deny that they discussed, i don't deny the topics they discussed - both of which are facts.
I deny they are proofs that double Aggro.Man. was disabled for PG2Mode - and i added my reasioning to this (i.e. [Street Fighter] raising on a unit with [Ignore Entrenchment], which is also a bug, but not fixed ; or there are old/new bugs or code hiccups between OG versions, as a year long playtester and bughunter of OG, you should actually be aware of this ; i confess though that i am not sure if my example (ship deployment) was actually delivered by me via send-in files). As an extension to this: there was also a lot of discussion about the AD Class Leader, even past Luis last comment in either of the topics. What does this prove ? That there are topics which generate discussions - nothing more, nothing less.



But you are very possibly right: the two of us have made our points adding no new relevant aspects, leading our discussion to a dead end.
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by lvjtn » 2019-12-29 08:32, Sunday

Chris, instead of your childish behavior and personal attacks against me, you would have tried to prove your statement that that was at least one moment when double aggr.man was alllowed. i proved that it was banned in 2009, i proved that it didn't work in 2019 and i proved that no mention in the changelog that it was ever changed

and what did you do?! have you tried to create a test scenario with pg2 suite and have you tested it with at least the dd exe, which is approximately 2 years old? no, you didn't, you just mocked me running 300 tests (not 150 as you wrongly alleged, again). have you tried to collect the aars from jp's cc01-cc54 checking what king of leaders the tanks had with og (pg2 mode) between 2009-2019? no you didn't. you clearly wrote, that for you, no need to prove anything (despite of the very-very-very strict fact that even Luis wrote that his memories can be wrong too)

so here you are, the list of the leadered tanks (128 pieces) of the first six ccs played with very different opengen versions. none of them had double aggr. man. of course, 128 is too few to prove anything, but if you'd like to start a constructive discussion, you can continue collecting aars. after adding 5-10 more ccs you should see at least one "aggr.man" (btw: it has nothing to do with factors but throwing dice x times and getting at least one specific number problem)

Code: Select all

CC01
----

OpenGen 0.90.99.82 * 18 Nov 2017

* Pz V Panther G , cpt. Jan - assault , 5 bars , 2569 exp , 4/10 , Infiltration Tactics , 161 kill , 0 pp [+162 exp]
+ Pz V Panther G , cpt. Doug - overwatch , 5 bars , 2980 exp , 8/10 , Overwatch , 119 kill , 0 pp [+178 exp]
Pz V Panther G , cpt. Urica - kill , 5 bars , 3661 exp , 8/10 , Overwhelming Attack , 142 kill , 900 pp [+244 exp]


OpenGen 0.90.55.0 * 16 Oct 2016

* Pz V Panther G , 11/6 , 5 bars , 1354 exp , Germany-Deutschland , 6/10 , Fire Discipline , 86 kill , 0 pp - U:006 [+44 exp]
Pz V Panther G , , 5 bars , 1200 exp , Germany-Deutschland , 7/10 , Infiltration Tactics , 70 kill , 900 pp - U:007 [+85 exp]
Pz V Panther G , , 5 bars , 831 exp , Germany-Deutschland , 10/10 , Shock Tactics , 52 kill , 900 pp - U:025 [+61 exp]
+ Pz V Panther G , , 5 bars , 581 exp , Germany-Deutschland , 9/10 , Combat Support , 39 kill , 0 pp - U:034 [+35 exp]


OpenGen 0.90.12 * 22 Nov 2012

+  Panther II /ProtoType ,  , 5 bars , 2832 exp , Germany-Deutschland  , 10/10 , Infiltration Tactics  , 222 kill , 0 pp - U:010
Panther II /ProtoType ,  , 5 bars , 3064 exp , Germany-Deutschland  , 11/10 , Overwatch  , 186 kill , 1108 pp - U:023
Panther II /ProtoType ,  , 5 bars , 2576 exp , Germany-Deutschland  , 10/10 , Overwhelming Attack  , 162 kill , 1008 pp - U:024
Panther II /ProtoType ,  , 5 bars , 2253 exp , Germany-Deutschland  , 9/10 , Reconnaissance Movement  , 137 kill , 1008 pp - U:026


OpenGen 0.80.7.7 * 19 May 2012

*  Panther II /ProtoType , 5 bars , 3125 exp , 9/10 , Battlefield Intelligence  , 152 kill , 0 pp
Panther II /ProtoType , 5 bars , 2619 exp , 6/10 , Bridging  , 137 kill , 1008 pp
Panther II /ProtoType , 5 bars , 2326 exp , 10/10 , First Strike  , 121 kill , 1008 pp
+  Panther II /ProtoType , 5 bars , 2228 exp , 7/10 , Aggressive Attack  , 131 kill , 0 pp
Panther II /ProtoType , 5 bars , 2168 exp , 9/10 , Battlefield Intelligence  , 107 kill , 1008 pp
Panther II /ProtoType , 5 bars , 1812 exp , 8/10 , Street Fighter  , 101 kill , 1008 pp


OpenGen 0.66a * 23 Feb 2011

Pz V Panther G , , 5 bars , 1576 exp , Italia , 15/10 , Overwatch , 135 kill , 1350 pp (U:025)
Pz V Panther G , , 5 bars , 1279 exp , Italia , 11/10 , Overwhelming Attack , 85 kill , 990 pp (U:028)


CC02
----

OpenGen 0.90.53.0 * 15 Apr 2016

* Pz V Panther A , 10, Cpt. Thomsen , 5 bars , 904 exp , Germany-Deutschland , 12/10 , Superior Maneuver , 69 kill , 0 pp - U:001 [+103 exp]
+ Pz V Panther G , Cpt. Lovemate , 5 bars , 700 exp , Germany-Deutschland , 14/10 , Overwatch , 73 kill , 0 pp - U:025 [+102 exp]
Pz V Panther A , Cpt. Blitzstoper , 5 bars , 581 exp , Germany-Deutschland , 13/10 , Skilled Reconnaissance , 40 kill , 1092 pp - U:026 [+113 exp]


OpenGen 0.80.7.7 * 3 Jun 2012

*  Pz V Panther G , 5 bars , 889 exp , 10/10 , Aggressive Attack  , 72 kill , 0 pp
Pz V Panther G , 5 bars , 519 exp , 6/10 , Infiltration Tactics  , 43 kill , 900 pp
Pz V Panther G , 5 bars , 592 exp , 10/10 , Resilience  , 41 kill , 900 pp


CC03
----

OpenGen 0.90.55.1 * 23 Oct 2016

*  Pz IVD , 11/6 , 3 bars , 317 exp , Deutschland , 7/10 , Infiltration Tactics  , 18 kill , 0 pp - U:006
+  Pz IVD ,  , 2 bars , 254 exp , Deutschland , 2/10 , Reconnaissance Movement  , 28 kill , 0 pp - U:009


OpenGen 0.90.55.0 * 16 Oct 2016

* Pz VG Panther , 11/6 , 5 bars , 1668 exp , Deutschland , 7/10 , Overwhelming Attack , 191 kill , 0 pp - U:006 [+118 exp]
Pz VG Panther , , 5 bars , 834 exp , Deutschland , 7/10 , Resilience , 28 kill , 1080 pp - U:010 [+58 exp]
Pz VG Panther , , 5 bars , 586 exp , Deutschland , 9/10 , Devastating Fire , 32 kill , 1080 pp - U:019 [+111 exp]


OpenGen 0.90.18.3 * 9 Jan 2012

* Pz Tiger B , cpt. adler - over , 5 bars , 3202 exp , 3/10 , Overwatch , 128 kill , 0 pp [+117 exp]
Pz Tiger B , cpt. tomek - price , 5 bars , 2499 exp , 8/10 , Influence , 140 kill , 1620 pp [+87 exp]
Pz Panther G , cpt. spud - recon , 5 bars , 2069 exp , 6/10 , Reconnaissance Movement , 78 kill , 1140 pp [+57 exp]
Pz Panther G , cpt. drag - tactics , 5 bars , 1531 exp , 7/10 , Infiltration Tactics , 76 kill , 1140 pp [+95 exp]


OpenGen 0.63c * 2 Jan 2011

* P30/43bis , 5 bars , 2758 exp , 10/10 , Aggressive Attack : Attack values increased by 2 , 0 pp
P30/43bis , 5 bars , 3962 exp , 9/10 , Overwhelming Attack : Some suppression becomes kills , 1128 pp
P30/43bis , 5 bars , 3258 exp , 13/10 , Devastating Fire : Unit can fire twice per turn , 1128 pp
P30/43bis , 5 bars , 1921 exp , 2/10 , Devastating Fire : Unit can fire twice per turn , 1128 pp 


OpenGen 0.67d * 20 Abr 2011

* Pz IIIH , 1/ Panzer Abt. I , 5 bars , 954 exp , Deutschland , 10/10 , Influence , 31 kill , 0 pp (U:006)
Pz IVF , 2/ Panzer Abt. I , 5 bars , 953 exp , Deutschland , 10/10 , Overwhelming Attack , 45 kill , 432 pp (U:007)
* Pz IVD , 2/ Panzer Abt. II , 5 bars , 825 exp , Deutschland , 10/10 , Superior Maneuver , 33 kill , 0 pp (U:008)


OpenGen 0.68.4 * 7 Jun 2011

Pz Tiger E , FD , 5 bars , 1763 exp , 10/10 , Fire Discipline , 128 kill , 1392 pp (U:010)
Pz Tiger E , DD , 5 bars , 1109 exp , 10/10 , Determined Defense , 77 kill , 1392 pp (U:020)


OpenGen 0.67 * 6 Abr 2011

* Pz Tiger E , 5 bars , 2075 exp , Deutschland , 15/10 , Overwatch , 113 kill , 0 pp
Pz IVG , 5 bars , 1518 exp , Deutschland , 10/10 , Street Fighter , 106 kill , 840 pp
Pz IVG , 5 bars , 1850 exp , Deutschland , 10/10 , Overwatch , 107 kill , 840 pp
* Pz Tiger E , 5 bars , 1338 exp , Deutschland , 15/10 , Superior Maneuver , 97 kill , 0 pp


OpenGen 0.67b * 15 Abr 2011

* Pz IIIH , * 1/Pz fire+ , 5 bars , 1476 exp , Deutschland , Devastating Fire , 47 kill , 0 pp (U:006)
Pz IVF , 2/Pz st ftr , 5 bars , 1143 exp , Deutschland , Street Fighter , 39 kill , 432 pp (U:007)
Pz IIIH , 3/Pz fire+ , 5 bars , 608 exp , Deutschland , Devastating Fire , 19 kill , 537 pp (U:018)


OpenGen 0.61.e * 1 Dec 2010

Pz IVD , 2-2 Pz IVD , 3 bars , 309 exp , Germany , 8/10 , Infiltration Tactics , 11 kill , 252 pp (U:018)


CC04
----

OpenGen 0.90.55.0 * 16 Oct 2016

* A41 Centurion , 6/3 Armored, Cpt. McL'mate , 5 bars , 796 exp , United Kingdom , 10/10 , Skilled Reconnaissance , 31 kill , 0 pp - U:001 [+151 exp]
A41 Centurion , Cpt. de Aleksandemont , 5 bars , 866 exp , France , 15/10 , First Strike , 43 kill , 1944 pp - U:020 [+125 exp]
A41 Centurion , Cpt. Drag "The Dragster" D. , 5 bars , 850 exp , United Kingdom , 13/10 , Shock Tactics , 43 kill , 1684 pp - U:034 [+129 exp]


OpenGen 0.90.52.00 * 14 Jan 2016

* M26 , , 5 bars , 916 exp , 11/10 , Combat Support , 58 kill , 0 pp [+90 exp]
* M26 , , 5 bars , 872 exp , 14/10 , Superior Maneuver , 53 kill , 0 pp [+74 exp]
M26 , , 5 bars , 666 exp , 14/10 , Street Fighter , 40 kill , 1915 pp [+34 exp]
M26 , , 5 bars , 644 exp , 10/10 , Resilience , 37 kill , 1368 pp [+108 exp]
M26 , , 5 bars , 756 exp , 14/10 , Liberator , 43 kill , 1915 pp [+88 exp]


OpenGen 0.90.22.2 * 13 Feb 2013

*  Firefly IIC , 6/3 Armored , 5 bars , 1104 exp , United Kingdom , 5/10 , Skilled Reconnaissance  ,  0 pp  [+152 exp]
*  Firefly IIC , 7/3 Armored , 5 bars , 1226 exp , United Kingdom , 7/10 , Street Fighter  ,  0 pp  [+160 exp]
Firefly IIC ,  , 5 bars , 1051 exp , United Kingdom , 5/10 , Determined Defense  ,  1068 pp  [+130 exp]
Firefly IIC ,  , 5 bars , 1087 exp , USA , 4/10 , Overwhelming Attack  ,  1068 pp  [+175 exp]


OpenGen 0.90.22.2 * 13 Feb 2013

*  Sherman V , 2nd ArmDiv / 1 , 5 bars , 1081 exp , United Kingdom , 10/10 , Overwatch  ,  0 pp  [+127 exp]
*  Valentine VIII , 2nd ArmDiv / 3 , 5 bars , 849 exp , United Kingdom , 10/10 , Street Fighter  ,  0 pp  [+49 exp]
Sherman III , 2nd ArmDiv / 4 , 5 bars , 747 exp , United Kingdom , 10/10 , First Strike  ,  516 pp  [+109 exp]


OpenGen 0.90.20.0 * 20 Jan 2013

* Matilda II , , 2 bars , 224 exp , 8/10 , Aggressive Attack , 6 kill , 0 pp [+100 exp]


OpenGen 0.61b * 12 Nov 2010

* M26 , 5 bars , 1644 exp , 11/10 , Superior Maneuver : Bypass zones of control , 0 pp
* M26 , 5 bars , 1569 exp , 13/10 , Infiltration Tactics : Ignores the effects of entrenchments and acts as bridge , 0 pp
M26 , 5 bars , 1106 exp , 13/10 , Infiltration Tactics : Ignores the effects of entrenchments and acts as bridge , 1428 pp
Firefly IIC , 5 bars , 999 exp , 6/10 , Reconnaissance Movement : Phased movement , 1068 pp


OpenGen 0.68.6 * 18 Jun 2011

* Sherman V , 5 bars , 657 exp , United Kingdom , 6/10 , Shock Tactics , 46 kill , 0 pp
Sherman V , 5 bars , 529 exp , United Kingdom , 8/10 , Superior Maneuver , 31 kill , 564 pp 


OpenGen 0.61a * 11 Nov 2010

* Char B1bis , , 1 bars , 147 exp , United Kingdom , 10/10 , Infiltration Tactics , 10 kill , 0 pp (U:002)


OpenGen 0.91.2.0 * 31 Jan 2018

* Tiger III , cpt. Jan - bridge , 5 bars , 2293 exp , 4/10 , Bridging , 126 kill , 0 pp [+76 exp]
Tiger III , cpt. Chris - ammo , 5 bars , 2196 exp , 6/10 , Fire Discipline , 129 kill , 600 pp [+103 exp]
Tiger III , cpt. David - intel , 5 bars , 1960 exp , 6/10 , Battlefield Intelligence , 117 kill , 600 pp [+126 exp]


OpenGen 0.90.56.0 * 1 Jan 2017

* Tiger III , 11/6, Cpt. Reloadmaster , 5 bars , 1520 exp , Germany , 12/10 , First Strike , 110 kill , 0 pp - U:006 [+62 exp]
Tiger III , Cpt. Gixian , 5 bars , 1726 exp , Germany , 11/10 , Street Fighter , 106 kill , 660 pp - U:012 [+80 exp]
Tiger III , Cpt. Aleksandr , 5 bars , 2347 exp , Germany , 15/10 , Overwhelming Attack , 130 kill , 900 pp - U:014 [+8 exp]


OpenGen 0.90.28.4 * 17 Jul 2013

* Tiger III , cpt. tomek - intel , 5 bars , 2066 exp , 8/10 , Battlefield Intelligence , 91 kill , 0 pp [+110 exp]
Tiger III , cpt. pzm - resil , 5 bars , 1855 exp , 8/10 , Resilience , 87 kill , 600 pp [+70 exp]
Tiger III , cpt. david - money , 5 bars , 1590 exp , 9/10 , Liberator , 119 kill , 600 pp [+83 exp]
+ Tiger III , cpt. drag - money , 5 bars , 1584 exp , 10/10 , Liberator , 119 kill , 0 pp [+34 exp]
Tiger III , cpt. tymoteusz - price , 5 bars , 1776 exp , 6/10 , Influence , 116 kill , 600 pp [+154 exp]
+ Tiger III , cpt. aries - attack , 5 bars , 1558 exp , 5/10 , Aggressive Attack , 88 kill , 0 pp [+78 exp]


OpenGen 0.90.22.2 * 13 Feb 2013

*  Panther G , 6.PzDiv/2/I , 5 bars , 2240 exp , Germany , 8/10 , Street Fighter  ,  0 pp  [+78 exp]
Panther G , 6.Pz.Div/2/II , 5 bars , 1985 exp , Germany , 7/10 , Infiltration Tactics  ,  420 pp  [+170 exp]
Panther G , 6.PzDiv/2/III , 5 bars , 2223 exp , Germany , 5/10 , Skilled Reconnaissance  ,  420 pp  [+128 exp]
Panther G , 6.PzDiv/2/IV , 5 bars , 2243 exp , Germany , 8/10 , Battlefield Intelligence  ,  420 pp  [+85 exp]


OpenGen 0.90.13 * 3 Dec 2012

*  Tiger III , 11/6 , 5 bars , 1846 exp , Germany , 9/10 , Reconnaissance Movement  , 155 kill , 0 pp - U:006  [+43 exp]
+  Tiger III ,  , 5 bars , 1762 exp , Germany , 10/10 , Skilled Reconnaissance  , 128 kill , 0 pp - U:010  [+78 exp]
Tiger III ,  , 5 bars , 1936 exp , Germany , 8/10 , Resilience  , 126 kill , 600 pp - U:023  [+62 exp]
Tiger III ,  , 5 bars , 1443 exp , Germany , 6/10 , Combat Support  , 86 kill , 600 pp - U:031  [+73 exp]


OpenGen 0.68.11 * 27 Jul 2011

* Tiger III , 5 bars , 3011 exp , Germany , 5/10 , Reconnaissance Movement , 223 kill , 0 pp
* Tiger III , 5 bars , 2246 exp , Germany , 12/10 , First Strike , 166 kill , 0 pp
* Panther F , 5 bars , 2130 exp , Germany , 11/10 , Overwatch , 152 kill , 0 pp
Panther G , 5 bars , 1909 exp , Germany , 7/10 , First Strike , 152 kill , 420 pp


OpenGen 0.63b * 22 Dec 2010

Panther G , 5 bars , 1029 exp , 2/10 , Devastating Fire : Unit can fire twice per turn , 420 pp
Panther G , 5 bars , 1008 exp , 12/10 , Reconnaissance Movement : Phased movement , 420 pp


OpenGen 0.60c * 15 Oct 2010

Tiger III , , 5 bars , 1286 exp , Germany , 5/10 , Determined Defense , 102 kill , 600 pp (U:008)
Tiger III , , 5 bars , 1919 exp , Germany , 9/10 , Overwatch , 118 kill , 600 pp (U:010)
Tiger III , , 5 bars , 1730 exp , Germany , 4/10 , Skilled Reconnaissance , 114 kill , 600 pp (U:011)
Tiger III , , 5 bars , 1493 exp , Germany , 10/10 , First Strike , 136 kill , 600 pp (U:012)


CC06
----

OpenGen 0.90.57.3 * 21 Feb 2017

* IS-3 , , 5 bars , 1377 exp , Russia , 9/10 , Battlefield Intelligence , 96 kill , 0 pp - U:012 [+40 exp]
IS-3 , , 5 bars , 1197 exp , Russia , 9/10 , Overwatch , 81 kill , 516 pp - U:021 [+70 exp]
+ IS-3 , , 5 bars , 907 exp , Russia , 3/10 , Street Fighter , 63 kill , 0 pp - U:038 [+64 exp]


OpenGen 0.90.25.2 * 21 Apr 2013

* IS-3 , cpt. guzmanov - over , 5 bars , 2247 exp , Russia , 13/10 , Overwatch , 144 kill , 0 pp [+67 exp]
* IS-3 , cpt. thomsensky - hq , 5 bars , 1978 exp , Russia , 5/10 , Combat Support , 78 kill , 0 pp [+57 exp]
IS-3 , cpt. guillevich - recon , 5 bars , 1951 exp , Russia , 11/10 , Reconnaissance Movement , 84 kill , 567 pp [+122 exp]
IS-3 , cpt. tyerminatov - price , 5 bars , 1358 exp , Russia , 12/10 , Influence , 91 kill , 619 pp [+113 exp]
+ IS-3 , cpt. aleyanov - street , 5 bars , 1707 exp , Russia , 11/10 , Street Fighter , 91 kill , 0 pp [+87 exp]
IS-3 , cpt. arievich - resil , 5 bars , 1222 exp , Russia , 13/10 , Resilience , 55 kill , 670 pp [+125 exp]


OpenGen 0.69.1 * 6 Aug 2011

* IS-2 , Cpt. Devil's Brigade , 5 bars , 2090 exp , Russia , 15/10 , Determined Defense , 141 kill , 0 pp
* IS-2 , Cpt. MG43 , 5 bars , 2048 exp , Russia , 15/10 , Shock Tactics , 158 kill , 0 pp
* IS-2 , Cpt. Badpanzer , 5 bars , 2030 exp , Russia , 15/10 , Shock Tactics , 149 kill , 0 pp
IS-2 , Cpt. Arathemis , 5 bars , 2004 exp , Russia , 15/10 , Overwatch , 169 kill , 774 pp
* T-44 , Cpt. Dhoned , 5 bars , 561 exp , Russia , 10/10 , Shock Tactics , 30 kill , 0 pp


OpenGen 0.69 * 4 Aug 2011

* T-34/76C , , 5 bars , 556 exp , Russia , 10/10 , Reconnaissance Movement , 29 kill , 0 pp (U:005)
T-34/76C , , 3 bars , 381 exp , Russia , 10/10 , Overwatch , 27 kill , 300 pp (U:013)


OpenGen 0.68.8 * 3 Jul 2011

* T-34/85 , 5 bars , 1243 exp , 15/10 , Combat Support , 84 kill , 0 pp
* T-34/85 , 5 bars , 1340 exp , 15/10 , Street Fighter , 108 kill , 0 pp
* T-34/85 , 5 bars , 1089 exp , 12/10 , Combat Support , 60 kill , 0 pp
* T-34/85 , 5 bars , 1552 exp , 15/10 , Shock Tactics , 127 kill , 0 pp 


OpenGen 0.69.1 * 6 Aug 2011

*  T-34/76F ,  , 5 bars , 734 exp , Russia , 5/10 , Overwhelming Attack  , 41 kill , 0 pp (U:006)


OpenGen 0.68.11 * 27 Jul 2011

* T-34/85 , 4 bars , 428 exp , Russia , 7/10 , Influence , 28 kill , 0 pp


OpenGen 0.69.0 * 3 Aug 2011

*  T-34/76C ,  , 4 bars , 479 exp , Russia , 10/10 , Liberator  , 25 kill , 0 pp (U:006)
*  KV-2 ,  , 5 bars , 560 exp , Russia , 10/10 , Influence  , 45 kill , 0 pp (U:010)
EDIT: finished first 11 ccs played by 43 differing versions of opengen, found 206 tank leaders, none of them is agg.man, though i found TWO! extended front (played with OpenGen 0.70.8.0 and 0.90.31.1 from 2011-13), for me, it is more and more clear that double aggr. man was never allowed. i collect +100 leaders (3-4-5 ccs) and share only the "final" data (for me 300 leaders will be conclusive)
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by lvjtn » 2019-12-29 10:48, Sunday

lvjtn wrote:
2019-12-29 08:32, Sunday
for me, it is more and more clear that double aggr. man was never allowed
checked cc01- cc18, played by 65 differing og versions, found 304 tank leaders, 3 of them (between 2011-2013) were extended front, but none of them was aggressive maneuver. for me, this case is closed**, but anybody can check cc19-cc54 to prove that i'm wrong. you should find only a single double aggr.man

the full aar collection (filtered only leadered tanks) can be dl-ed from my site

the summarized leader distribution* is this:

Code: Select all

leader					number
Aggressive Attack			13
Battlefield Intelligence		13
Bridging					7
Combat Support				18
Determined Defense			15
Devastating Fire				15
Fire Discipline				17
First Strike					10
Infiltration Tactics			25
Influence					15
Liberator					15
Overwatch					28
Overwhelming Attack			16
Reconnaissance Movement		16
Resilience					16
Shock Tactics				19
Skilled Reconnaissance		7	
Street Fighter				20
Superior Maneuver			16
-----------------------------
+Extended Front				3
+Aggressive Maneuver			0
-----------------------------
TOTAL:					304
the og versions what were used are these:

Code: Select all

OpenGen 0.60c * 15 Oct 2010
OpenGen 0.61a * 11 Nov 2010
OpenGen 0.61b * 12 Nov 2010
OpenGen 0.61.e * 1 Dec 2010
OpenGen 0.63 * 19 Dec 2010
OpenGen 0.63b * 22 Dec 2010
OpenGen 0.63c * 2 Jan 2011
OpenGen 0.65d * 10 Feb 2011
OpenGen 0.66a * 23 Feb 2011
OpenGen 0.67 * 6 Abr 2011
OpenGen 0.67b * 15 Abr 2011
OpenGen 0.67d * 20 Abr 2011
OpenGen 0.68.4 * 7 Jun 2011
OpenGen 0.68.6 * 18 Jun 2011
OpenGen 0.68.8 * 3 Jul 2011
OpenGen 0.68.11 * 27 Jul 2011
OpenGen 0.69 * 4 Aug 2011
OpenGen 0.69.1 * 6 Aug 2011
OpenGen 0.70.0 * 23 Nov 2011
OpenGen 0.70.8.0 * 25 Dec 2011
OpenGen 0.80.6.0 * 20 Abr 2012
OpenGen 0.80.6.2 * 26 Abr 2012
OpenGen 0.80.7.0 * 27 Abr 2012
OpenGen 0.80.7.7 * 19 May 2012
OpenGen 0.90.1 * 12 Sep 2012
OpenGen 0.90.7.1 * 19 Oct 2012
OpenGen 0.90.12 * 22 Nov 2012
OpenGen 0.90.13 * 3 Dec 2012
OpenGen 0.90.17.1 * 26 Dec 2012
OpenGen 0.90.18.3 * 9 Jan 2012
OpenGen 0.90.20.0 * 20 Jan 2013
OpenGen 0.90.21.0 * 28 Jan 2013
OpenGen 0.90.22.2 * 13 Feb 2013
OpenGen 0.90.25.2 * 21 Apr 2013
OpenGen 0.90.26.9 * 12 Jun 2013
OpenGen 0.90.28.4 * 17 Jul 2013
OpenGen 0.90.30.10c * 5 Dic 2013
OpenGen 0.90.31.0 * 23 Dic 2013
OpenGen 0.90.31.1 * 26 Dic 2013
OpenGen Test.31.1e [= 0.90.31.1e] * 10 Jan 2014
OpenGen 0.90.32.1 * 14 Feb 2014
OpenGen 0.90.32.2 * 1 Mar 2014
OpenGen 0.90.32.7 * 16 May 2014
OpenGen 0.90.32.7c * 7 Jun 2014
OpenGen 0.90.32.8f * 21 Jul 2014
OpenGen 0.90.32.9a * 15 Ago 2014
OpenGen 0.90.33.0 * 4 Nov 2014
OpenGen 0.90.34.0 * 29 Nov 2014
OpenGen 0.90.38.3g * 5 Feb 2015
OpenGen 0.90.50.5 * 28 Ago 2015
OpenGen 0.90.52.00 * 14 Jan 2016
OpenGen 0.90.53.0 * 15 Apr 2016
OpenGen 0.90.54.0 * 28 Jun 2016
OpenGen 0.90.55.0 * 16 Oct 2016
OpenGen 0.90.55.1 * 23 Oct 2016
OpenGen 0.90.56.0 * 1 Jan 2017
OpenGen 0.90.57.0 * 16 Feb 2017
OpenGen 0.90.57.3 * 21 Feb 2017
OpenGen 0.90.58.0 * 11 Abr 2017
OpenGen 0.90.59.00 * 28 May 2017
OpenGen 0.90.59.1 * 28 May 2017
OpenGen 0.90.99.82 * 18 Nov 2017
OpenGen 0.91.2.0 * 31 Jan 2018
OpenGen 0.91.3.99-rc * 19 Jul 2018
OpenGen 0.91.3.99_rc3 * 19 Sep 2018
* +1 it's very suspicious that a few people (but only a few) cheated (reloaded for better leader or used suite), as the weak bridging occured only 7 times while the most powerful owerwatch 28 times, while the most leaders have average (15 +/- 4) occurence

** the chance of geting zero aggr. man from 301 leaders (i ignored the 3 extended fronts) is (19/20)^301 which is 0,0000002%, and actually 100 probes wouth have proved my statement with more than 99% probability. so much about statistics***

*** it's really just for fun, but i tested the math. i threw away all aars except from cc01, got only 19 tank leaders. the chance of getting at least one leader from a certain type is 1 - (19/20)^19 = 62,3% and surprise, surprise, there were exactly 12 different types in cc01 which is the closest number to the estimated 12,45 (aka 0,623 * 20). and the 95% probability, which is an accepted limit for saying something is significant would be 59 tries (1-(19/20)^59 = 95,15%). with 90 tries we reach the 99% probability, with 135 tries the 99,9% probability of saying the dice are manipulated (e.g. because one outcome is disabled) or not. for further reading i found this page explaining it the easiest way. the only thing what should be modified is that we have a die with 20 (not only six) different sides, the logic is the same)
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by mythos » 2019-12-29 16:15, Sunday

lvjtn wrote:
2019-12-29 08:32, Sunday
you just mocked me running 300 tests (not 150 as you wrongly alleged, again).
a) show me where anyone (me or otherwise) told you to run even a single sample

b) yes, sorry, you are right: i over-read in your second post that you ran 300 samples.
However:
lvjtn wrote:
2019-12-27 20:51, Friday
i got 150 tank leaders
Maybe i misunderstood what you were meaning with this - but this number of 150 made it into my texting.



lvjtn wrote:
2019-12-29 08:32, Sunday
have you tried to create a test scenario with pg2 suite and have you tested it with at least the dd exe, which is approximately 2 years old? no, you didn't, you just mocked me running 300 tests (not 150 as you wrongly alleged, again). have you tried to collect the aars from jp's cc01-cc54 checking what king of leaders the tanks had with og (pg2 mode) between 2009-2019? no you didn't.
Naturally i didn't:
a) Luis said the possibility is there. This is a [case closed] sign for me
b) in all actuality, what Luis said was "the possibility was there, but at the moment there is a bug preventing double Aggro.Man. from occuring" (*)
c) Luis didn't specify the Timeframe when this option actually did work, and even if, i don't have the corresponding exe to test
d) due to my Laptop getting KIA, i don't have the save files anymore

(*)
LuisGuzman wrote:
2019-12-28 11:53, Saturday
Well it happens that effectively it doesn't work because after this clause:
[..]
there is bug (actually a typo) disabling completely leader #22 for tanks


lvjtn wrote:
2019-12-29 08:32, Sunday
Chris, instead of your childish behavior and personal attacks against me
You call me a liar, kid me and are writing in an aggressive tone, i do neither of this, but i am the one being childish and attacking :fused
As much as i respect you otherwise Csaba, but i cannot take you serious for the moment.
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by Nashorn » 2020-01-04 12:54, Saturday

:howdy

Happy New Year Luis & Everybody.

Sorry i know this isnt the correct way to list bugs without test files but ive been ill and have OG spread over 4 computers at the moment and have just made brief notes

1/ DIRT ports stop correct road movement cost even with a road painted onto it (ie road seems BLOWN if port is made DIRT) or is it because roads dont work in ports?
2/ AIR units cannot BLOW a newly BUILT bridge because it has no flag added when made on the map - But GROUND units can!
3/ GROUND Construction unit with REMOVE MINES special on a bridge (road over water) cannot remove Sea Mines
4/ Can't launch Rail units from a container.
5/ Should be a warning box message for BLOW whether Flag or Not present on hex (that would help to stop accidental blowing of hexes)
6/ Can chance of evade % be shown somewhere to help work out whether to attack or not an evading unit
7/ Can we have a cfg variable to restrict rain to just one turn if it occurs

Regards
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by mythos » 2020-01-06 21:23, Monday

Nashorn wrote:
2020-01-04 12:54, Saturday
1/ is it because roads dont work in ports?
If Movecost of Road is different (actually, i think only if it is "better" ) than the underlying Terrain, then Roads work. The only exception is BLOWN status, but then also the Movecost of the underlying Terrain is changed to BLOWN = it is impossible to BLOW the road but not the terrain, it is always both.

I sometimes thought if it would be interesting to have a "layered" BLOWing, i.e. if a terrain has a Road and a Facility (Port etc), then
- first BLOW destroys Road or Facility
- second BLOW destroys Facility or Road (whatever is left)
- third Blow destroys Terrain
If only Road or Facility is present, there are accordingly only 2 possible BLOW occurances.


Nashorn wrote:
2020-01-04 12:54, Saturday
5/ Should be a warning box message for BLOW whether Flag or Not present on hex (that would help to stop accidental blowing of hexes)
For Direct Line of Fire units i would think yes, however: i thought these units have a Menu item to chose whether they want to BLOW or not.
For Indirect Line of Fire units (aty, AD, ships, aircraft) imho no. Or respectively: they sould be able to deliberately try to BLOW, but their random chance should remain.


Nashorn wrote:
2020-01-04 12:54, Saturday
7/ Can we have a cfg variable to restrict rain to just one turn if it occurs
In the past i had been thinking about a "custom weather file" idea. It never made it past the sketching phase. Basically, it would
- overwrite default weather table (zone, clear/overcast/etc, % chance of precipitation, and such)
- set a specific weather (and ground) condition for a particular turn
The main idea behind it was to have a means of creating historical scenarios with (as far as known) historic weather conditions.

In a sense, this would allow to artifically create a day-night-cycle
- clear = bright daylight
- overcast = bad daylight (i.e. dawn, fog, overcast)
- rain = night
- snow = any kind of bad weather
An extension to this idea is to modify (via cfg) how [All Weather] specials work, since it should be possible (for WW2 and earl Cold War environments) to let it work only during "night" turns, but not during "bad weather" and "night + bad weather" turns.

In the end i thought this would be too much work for too little gain :dunno
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by Duke Falcon » 2020-01-08 18:49, Wednesday

Welcome you all in 2020!

Lately I have plenty of lay-in-bed time because of certain recuperation and thus I could play OG. More precisely I play my XG on 100:50 difficulty and have a hard time. I wonder if there is some special key to see unit descriptions? Because albeit I written description for all units I have no way to see those ingame (no "i" marker or any other visible way to do so). What could be wrong? I worry I wasted 2 weeks for XG complete edition when created those descriptions...

And I have an ASUS EN9600 GT card now so my SDL2 texture errors vanished. Now I can play on the largest map! A fantastic enjoyment!

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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by lvjtn » 2020-01-08 19:40, Wednesday

happy new year, Gábor! :howdy
Duke Falcon wrote:
2020-01-08 18:49, Wednesday
I wonder if there is some special key to see unit descriptions? Because albeit I written description for all units I have no way to see those ingame (no "i" marker or any other visible way to do so). What could be wrong?
there are several things what can be wrong :)

i try to summarize the rules of unitpedia:

1. you should have a local folder inside your efile called "unitpedia"
2. you should put the description or the description + image inside this folder for each units
3. filename should be the equipment code of the unit. e.g. the hungarian "6 fontos ágyú" aka "6 pdr gun" has ecode:00048 (see in suite), so te unitpedia image is 48.jpg and the unitpdia entry is 48.txt. the jpg image should have exactly 300x400px dimension 8can't be smaller or larger), the txt description file should be encoded with win-1250 or win-1252 codepage, with cr+lf end of line chars

and it should work with the latest (0.93.3.*) exe:

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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by Duke Falcon » 2020-01-09 18:25, Thursday

lvjtn wrote:
2020-01-08 19:40, Wednesday
happy new year, Gábor! :howdy
Duke Falcon wrote:
2020-01-08 18:49, Wednesday
I wonder if there is some special key to see unit descriptions? Because albeit I written description for all units I have no way to see those ingame (no "i" marker or any other visible way to do so). What could be wrong?
there are several things what can be wrong :)

i try to summarize the rules of unitpedia:

1. you should have a local folder inside your efile called "unitpedia"
2. you should put the description or the description + image inside this folder for each units
3. filename should be the equipment code of the unit. e.g. the hungarian "6 fontos ágyú" aka "6 pdr gun" has ecode:00048 (see in suite), so te unitpedia image is 48.jpg and the unitpdia entry is 48.txt. the jpg image should have exactly 300x400px dimension 8can't be smaller or larger), the txt description file should be encoded with win-1250 or win-1252 codepage, with cr+lf end of line chars

and it should work with the latest (0.93.3.*) exe:

Image
1. It has a folder (albeit not sure if it is "pedia" or "paedia" but I will check immediately)...
2. Description put but I use no picture at all.
3. I written all entries within the Suite as I assumed that guarantee they will work.
4. What is this cr+lf? Some special char-codes?

The Suite reads and displays the unit entries when I open the equipment but no descriptions ingame. I really hope pictures are not necessary as drawing ~900 pictures should be a curse right now (not to mention this is only XG while Fantasy General and Dune also will receive unit descriptions).

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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by LuisGuzman » 2020-01-09 18:44, Thursday

Duke Falcon wrote:
2020-01-09 18:25, Thursday
1. It has a folder (albeit not sure if it is "pedia" or "paedia" but I will check immediately)...
2. Description put but I use no picture at all.
3. I written all entries within the Suite as I assumed that guarantee they will work.
4. What is this cr+lf? Some special char-codes?

The Suite reads and displays the unit entries when I open the equipment but no descriptions ingame. I really hope pictures are not necessary as drawing ~900 pictures should be a curse right now (not to mention this is only XG while Fantasy General and Dune also will receive unit descriptions).
1.- Folder must be UnitPedia under the efile folder.
2,. No need to add a picture, can use just a text file
4.- cr-lf means that lines follow the windows standard for text files: lines must be ended by a sequence of: CR (carriage return) plus LF (line-feed)
In practice it means you must hit ENTER at the end of every line, including the last one.
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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by Major Heinz » 2020-01-10 22:02, Friday

Hi, I have read a little bit about the discussion about the aggessive manouver leader. My question is: If I will give a special unit eg infantry a non-infantry leader like overwatch what will happen? Will the second ability then not used?

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Re: OpenGen Questions & Bugs - Latest exe: 0.93.3.8.Test (1-Dec-2019)

Post by Duke Falcon » 2020-01-11 09:35, Saturday

LuisGuzman wrote:
2020-01-09 18:44, Thursday
Duke Falcon wrote:
2020-01-09 18:25, Thursday
1. It has a folder (albeit not sure if it is "pedia" or "paedia" but I will check immediately)...
2. Description put but I use no picture at all.
3. I written all entries within the Suite as I assumed that guarantee they will work.
4. What is this cr+lf? Some special char-codes?

The Suite reads and displays the unit entries when I open the equipment but no descriptions ingame. I really hope pictures are not necessary as drawing ~900 pictures should be a curse right now (not to mention this is only XG while Fantasy General and Dune also will receive unit descriptions).
1.- Folder must be UnitPedia under the efile folder.
2,. No need to add a picture, can use just a text file
4.- cr-lf means that lines follow the windows standard for text files: lines must be ended by a sequence of: CR (carriage return) plus LF (line-feed)
In practice it means you must hit ENTER at the end of every line, including the last one.
:howdy
I written like this:

"TITLE

Continous description without enter at the end..."

So... I need to add an enter at the end of all lines? Or enough a single enter at the very end of the description?
Major Heinz wrote:
2020-01-10 22:02, Friday
Hi, I have read a little bit about the discussion about the aggessive manouver leader. My question is: If I will give a special unit eg infantry a non-infantry leader like overwatch what will happen? Will the second ability then not used?
I think it would work. Or does things change such a lotin OG lately? As I remember leaders given more or less randomly or it were used to. I used to have leaders "out of their class" and they worked. But if OG core mechanics changed toward class-exclusive or class-dependent, well, then I may ask the same question what you did...

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