feedback; Manual and AI speed

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Lagi
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feedback; Manual and AI speed

Post by Lagi » 2020-05-11 15:15, Monday

Hi,

My opinion as newbie/casual player. I was playing OG last 2 days.

It is fantastic ; units, maps, options. Scenario in exotic places, and conflict I haven't hear about (dont worry im aware some are fiction:) ). Didactic value is great, esp. for someone like me, who have aversion to second world war.
I adore the 2d graphics.

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I printed this manual:
http://www.open-general.com/doc-manual.php

I was confused about how exactly work Close Defense and Range Defense. And I check some PG2 forum for some explanation.
I suggest to update Manual at least with this two information (Close Defense all cases of use - maybe in some table format? Mention that Range defense is add to ground defense if attack is further away than from abut hex). Otherwise you left player wondering what exactly the two main stats do in game.

How initiative works? its who shoot first? or who win Initiative battle, grant some Attack and Defense bonus, then combat is solved simultaneously (you could just receive bonus or not)

I still don't have a grasp how the Attack vs Defense is affecting the battle outcome. I think there should be some guideline as well, .f.ex. if you have 2 attack more than enemy defense then you have roughly X% for kill and Y% suppress.

This amendments to manual would help a lot new players like me.

-----

Unfortunately playing OG is wearisome, because of only one thing. After each of my turn I am waiting quite long time for AI movement to end. Even if AI doesn't seem to make any brilliant decision, it just move units forward.

Part of the burden is lack of any AI progress bar or indicator, I just see "AI scan" at the bottom.

Waiting for AI, wouldn't be so bad. If I could in this time, f.ex check the units stats. I refrain from trying to do it, because I have CrashToDesktop twice (last time just minutes ago).

AI is quite competitive (compare to other games), he just think too long. Its single player game.

Not sure if that make sens, but maybe could you add options for "Fast, but stupid AI" ? where AI dont do any of this scans just move units forward and attack nearest target? This would be good for new players, that just want to have fun, and make lots of mistakes anyway. [ I lost final battle in tutorial campaign :) ]

As for now I contemplate my life choices quite too often, waiting for my turn, to continue playing OG.

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mythos
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Re: feedback; Manual and AI speed

Post by mythos » 2020-05-12 21:12, Tuesday

Hi Lagi and :welcome to the forums :howdy

Just a quick note:
Lagi wrote:
2020-05-11 15:15, Monday
Unfortunately playing OG is wearisome, because of only one thing. After each of my turn I am waiting quite long time for AI movement to end.
2 cases i know where the AI turn resolves slow
1) AI has units in Air/Naval Transport
2) OG is accessed via USB (external hard disc or so)

Regarding 1), there aren't many scenarios involving this.
Regarding 2), i had the same problem some months ago after moving to a new computer - try installing the game to your main hard drive.
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lvjtn
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Re: feedback; Manual and AI speed

Post by lvjtn » 2020-05-13 16:38, Wednesday

:welcome Lagi
Lagi wrote:
2020-05-11 15:15, Monday
I suggest to update Manual at least with this two information (Close Defense all cases of use - maybe in some table format? Mention that Range defense is add to ground defense if attack is further away than from abut hex). Otherwise you left player wondering what exactly the two main stats do in game.

How initiative works? its who shoot first? or who win Initiative battle, grant some Attack and Defense bonus, then combat is solved simultaneously (you could just receive bonus or not)
the reason why cd/rd and init is not explained better is simple: it works exactly the same as in pg2. but you are right, pg2 is 23y old game, and lots of people never might never play it, so it would be nice to write a manual about it

the problem is nobody likes writing manuals.

maybe it's not too risky to upload the original pg2 manual to our site, what do you think, Chris, Luis? (i know it's also available on Luis' site, but duplicating can be useful)

+1 actually i play pg2/og since 1998, and honestly, i couldn't explain how cd/rd work exactly. as a player, it's enough to check the estimated losses, and when i designed an efile, i read the details of the manuals, but it wasn't too important to learn :)
Lagi wrote:
2020-05-11 15:15, Monday
Unfortunately playing OG is wearisome, because of only one thing. After each of my turn I am waiting quite long time for AI movement to end. Even if AI doesn't seem to make any brilliant decision, it just move units forward.
as Christ wrote, a wrong installation folder like external usb drive or c:\program files or other common folders can be a problem:
When selecting the installation folder, you should avoid special Windows folders like “Documents”, “Programs Files”, “Users” or similar, as later you won’t be able to add new stuff or even save your savegames. The recommended installation folder is “C:\OpenGen”.
if you installed opengen to a safe place, and it's too slow, maybe your anti-virus program slows it down. once 2-3-4 years before and old version was really slow, but it has been fixed for a long time, and recent versions should be fast
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mythos
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Re: feedback; Manual and AI speed

Post by mythos » 2020-05-13 19:49, Wednesday

lvjtn wrote:
2020-05-13 16:38, Wednesday

maybe it's not too risky to upload the original pg2 manual to our site, what do you think, Chris, Luis?
Good question, but i think the manual shouldn't be a problem. There are sites on the net which host manuals for old software and games.


edit:
Quick check, replacementdocs has the PG3 manual, so :dunno
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Re: feedback; Manual and AI speed

Post by Parabellum » 2020-05-14 06:17, Thursday

mythos wrote:
2020-05-13 19:49, Wednesday
...
edit:
Quick check, replacementdocs has the PG3 manual, so :dunno
:yes , but if you adjust the search more precisely, you will get better results directly ;)
http://www.replacementdocs.com/search.p ... oads&adv=0
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Re: feedback; Manual and AI speed

Post by lvjtn » 2020-05-14 07:18, Thursday

ok, i've added the pg2 user manual to our site
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Re: feedback; Manual and AI speed

Post by Ale » 2020-05-14 12:07, Thursday

Lagi wrote:I still don't have a grasp how the Attack vs Defense is affecting the battle outcome. I think there should be some guideline as well, .f.ex. if you have 2 attack more than enemy defense then you have roughly X% for kill and Y% suppress.
unfortunately even with all precision and stats in play i think that both PG2 and OG have some arbitrary, "dice like" moment in battle outcomes what one can check himself by reloading turn - in many instances same units, same positions on given hex, strenght and other things, even artillery hits etc. will give different battle outcomes and kills and suppress numbers... check it out, i know that moment (and not sure how to explain) since 90s, giving impression that structure and stats consideration might not be so rigid and universal to the results.

when it comes to AI - whatever causing those waiting times for you and hopefully you decrease it - i'll also add that generally speaking AI speed is alright for me, comparing with some older titles or newer so never had that issue. however i sometimes had other issues with graphical output, most likely caused by my (relatively capable for ogl though) graphic card, so there might be some variations from comp to comp on how OG really runs, not really general game issues to all. Luis, Lvjtn others are there for technical stuff so just fast comment

:welcome around, have fun with game and hope you find some answers in papers. as mentioned i also looked in manuals some 23 years ago last time :) close defense works in hexes like cities, forests, rough but that's explained there... yes, these games are rarely matched in decades for its fun, moding, simplicity and replayability factors since some Japanese games via SSI till todays "remakes", nice summary by you in first paragraph :yes

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