A cosmetic annoyance

[none]

Not a bug but a cosmetic annoyance:

For standard "capture them all" scenarios, the little status window between each turn states the scenario goal as "Capture any VH", which can be misconstrued as "capture one and you're done". I'd suggest to change it to "Capture all VHs", which is more unequivocal.

[LuisGuzman]

Not a bug but a cosmetic annoyance:

For standard "capture them all" scenarios, the little status window between each turn states the scenario goal as "Capture any VH", which can be misconstrued as "capture one and you're done". I'd suggest to change it to "Capture all VHs", which is more unequivocal.

not cosmetic ...

If you see ""Win by taking any flag" in the turn dialog, the scenario really will finish as soon as you take any flag.

The somehow called "Win By Taking Any Flag" is actually a special type of victory condition.
It was a feature of PG2 that OG inherited for compatibility issues.
I'm pretty sure that it was a PG2's bug, but some designers used that "bug" to create scenarios so I was forced to keep.
It is a difficult to implement feature, and thus it has raised from time to time other glitches related when adding other victory conditions.
I do not remember exactly, but I think that it happens when all VH to take for a player are already owned by that player and no more VH is defined for that player to take. That is, when a player has no VH to take owned by the enemy. Then capturing any enemy flag throws victory for him.

That condition is obviously disabled when the scenario use the "Hold # VH" as victory condition.

But maybe a I don't remember clearly the conditions to happen
... so if someone else can explain better how it work more, I'll be really pleased.

[randowe]

I do not remember exactly, but I think that it happens when all VH to take for a player are already owned by that player and no more VH is defined for that player to take. That is, when a player has no VH to take owned by the enemy. Then capturing any enemy flag throws victory for him.

Yep, that's it. It sometimes happens in old campaigns that were designed for PG2. Any flag also means any flagged hex, not only VH. Even when the side that owns all VHs will recapture a regular flag (no VH) it will win.

In OG you have to use the "hold VH" setting, like Luis said, or you have to add a hidden player VH (remove flag so it is invisible to the player) that the AI can not capture (In ocean in corner of map or escarpment or something like this). In this case the AI can not win the scenario but the player still can loose when not capture all flags in turn limit.

[none]

the scenario really will finish as soon as you take any flag.

??? You lost me. Please define what you mean by "flag".

We're most likely not talking about the same thing. In the scenario I'm playing the victory condition is to capture all VHs, and indeed I have already captured a lot of flagged hexes (VH or not) and the scenario keeps going (as expected). That's why I consider the "any flag" as misleading: The victory condition is to "Capture all VH objectives", nothing else is checked.

[none]

I think that it happens when all VH to take for a player are already owned by that player and no more VH is defined for that player to take. That is, when a player has no VH to take owned by the enemy.

Might be, but this isn't the case here. As I said just above, scenario victory condition is to "Capture all VH objectives", there are lots of VHs still to capture (it's your 3k Narvik map), and thus I really don't see what that "any flag" message refers to.

[randowe]

Which message do you get exactly? Can you post a screenshot?

[none]

Which message do you get exactly? Can you post a screenshot?

It's on the standard turn end/start status message, the one which states the turn, date, weather, etc.

On the bottom right of that message there is a reminder of the scenario goal, and for me it states "Capture any VHs", despite the scenario (made by me) has "Capture all VHs" as victory condition.

I could make a screenshot, but I guess you must have the exact same on your OG (RC5.1), just pick any scenario with the standard "all VHs" victory condition.

[LuisGuzman]

Sorry but I cannot wonder where do you see that "Take any VH" (or similar) in the turn dialog

(if you have not debug-mode enabled the yellow text is hidden



For a "Hold #VH" condition I see:

[none]

Hah!
Well, apparently the "victory conditions" part isn't always there. Yes, I'm serious...

It put up a good fight but I managed to capture it eventually: Obviously when I wanted to catch it it was gone, like in your pics. It eventually appeared again in the next scenario, but for some reason any screenshots I made didn't contain the message window, just the game map... I finally took a picture of the screen with my phone.

Anyway, here it is, the elusive "victory conditions" message (right behind the mouse cursor):
https://www.mediafire.com/view/h6o7w71h ... e.jpg/file
(The victory conditions are different in this scenario, so the wording is different)

[randowe]

Anyway, here it is, the elusive "victory conditions" message (right behind the mouse cursor):
https://www.mediafire.com/view/h6o7w71h ... e.jpg/file
(The victory conditions are different in this scenario, so the wording is different)

"Take VHs required" only appears when there are VHs that only one side need to capture. So you don't need to capture all VHs, but the required ones. When hovering the mouse in the game over such a VH the text will say for example "VH to take by allied (Enemy)".

But in your first post you reported "Capture any VH" which is a different message. I tested today but was not able to create a scenario that shows that "Capture any VH" message.
What we tried to explain in previous posts was the "win by taking any flag" message, but maybe this was a misunderstanding, because you did not mean that one, right?

[sympatyk]

This picture shows a message about two military units - which must survive - otherwise ( ) you will lose

In our game - often - the loss of a unit's staff results in an automatic defeat.

[none]

But in your first post you reported "Capture any VH" which is a different message.

There are two (2) issues here:

1. First, and this makes everything harder, the turn status message window (I hope we're now clear which one I mean) does apparently not always mention the scenario's victory conditions (whatever they might be).
   Example: In Luis' pics above there is no mention of victory conditions. In my own one, there is. I had never noticed this part was appearing and disappearing, as you usually take those are interface things for granted. I only noticed this when wanting to take a screenshot, and all of a sudden it was gone (see #3).
   .
2. Second, when there is a victory conditions mention in that status message, and when the scenario victory conditions ask for simply capturing all VHs (nothing checked), the message is not clear enough. That was my initial point.
   .
3. As for my screenshot showing a different message, as I already said above, when I returned to the game to make a screenshot there was no victory condition displayed anymore(see issue #1). Only when I finished that scenario and went into the next one did the victory conditions mention reappear. My screenshot above is only there to prove that victory conditions (whatever they are) do appear from time to time.

I really don't understand why you both insist on lecturing me on victory conditions, it has never been my question. I know about them, it's me who made those scenarios, I'm still playtesting them!

Lets close this ticket since it is going nowhere fast, and is as I said it's more cosmetic than annoying (especially if that part only appears on full moons).

[randowe]

I really don't understand why you both insist on lecturing me on victory conditions, it has never been my question. I know about them, it's me who made those scenarios, I'm still playtesting them!

We only tried to understand how you got that "Capture any VH" message that you reported. Sorry, i only tried to help. That will never happen again. My bad.

[none]

Come on, the problem is complicated. As I explained. And definitely not worth the time spent on it, only to end up with hurt feelings and nothing else.
As I said, lets forget about it.
Here is a real bug now, of the crawly many-legs type.

[none]

While starting a new scenario, during the deployment phase, you can deploy planes in carrier hangars, but you can not deploy units in other classes' hangars, even if they work just fine during the game.
Examples: Deploying deploying infantry into ships with infantry-sized hangars. (See my EFile for how this is rigged.)
The problem happens only during the player's deployment phase. Once in the game itself, everything works as expected.

Could it be a leftover from the hangar bug RC2 fixed?

Here is the test scenario (works with the NOKorp you have): You have two deployed destroyers with hangars, and two undeployed infantry units (simulating cores from previous scenario). Try deploying them into the ships, you can't. Put them into the deployment hexes on the shore and bring the ships near, now they can enter them without a problem.

[LuisGuzman]

While starting a new scenario, during the deployment phase, you can deploy planes in carrier hangars, but you can not deploy units in other classes' hangars, even if they work just fine during the game.
Examples: Deploying deploying infantry into ships with infantry-sized hangars. (See my EFile for how this is rigged.)
The problem happens only during the player's deployment phase. Once in the game itself, everything works as expected.

Could it be a leftover from the hangar bug RC2 fixed?

Deploy rules basically follow the PG2 rules:
- air units can deploy on "carriers" and "airfields" (and its extended variants)
- ground units can deploy only in DH and SH (including sea-ports when sea-port ==SH)

This means, that only containers placed in SH-type (sea-port if the container is naval) can deploy inside a container.
And changing that, is out of scope atm...

[LuisGuzman]

But in your first post you reported "Capture any VH" which is a different message.

There are two (2) issues here:
.....

I do appreciate your comments, but I think it is better to show like it is: Only when conditions are not the standard, additional info is included.

If you want to more info, I'd suggest to enable debug mode (Alt+F5) and that dialog will show more detailed info.

[none]

This means, that only containers placed in SH-type (sea-port if the container is naval) can deploy inside a container.
And changing that, is out of scope atm...

Okay, thanks, got it.
I can work around that, it just means I have to abandon my all-destroyers, no volatile transports plan. Oh well, it wasn't the most important feature of the campaign anyway...

Only when conditions are not the standard, additional info is included.

I see. Why didn't you say so in the first place instead of showing me empty message windows? Anyway, in the campaign I'm working on there are always non-standard conditions, because the player has two core carriers which are MSU.
That been said I'll keep an eye on this message thingy, because it doesn't seem to work as you intended, after all when I tried to make that screenshot all of a sudden there was no mention at all about the victory conditions (which hadn't changed).

And, please be assured I'm not dissing or accusing or badmouthing you. I'm genuinely only trying to help. I have worked with developers enough to know they can't possibly see all, and have to rely on other people to spot the edge cases where something trips over something else. I'm just a little more hasty than other people because of personal reasons which preclude any "we'll see later" for me. Let me at this point stress again the highly polished, extraordinary piece of work Open General and Open Suite are! I'd be proud if I have contributed any tiny part to that.

If you want to more info, I'd suggest to enable debug mode (Alt+F5) and that dialog will show more detailed info.

Thanks, I will try this out.

There are several things I'm currently keeping under observation, not knowing if they are supposed to be like that, or if this is genuinely abnormal behavior; I usually vote for "abnormal" when and if it bothers me...

[LuisGuzman]

Why didn't you say so in the first place instead of showing me empty message windows?

Because you posted:

For standard "capture them all" scenarios, the little status window between each turn states the scenario goal as "Capture any VH", which can be misconstrued as "capture one and you're done". I'd suggest to change it to "Capture all VHs", which is more unequivocal.

I checked all text in the dialog and "Capture any VH" is never written, so I understood you were meaning: "Win by taking any flag"

I didn't think you were referring to: "Take VHs required" ... probably I should have checked only labels including "VH" instead

And, please be assured I'm not dissing or accusing or badmouthing you. I'm genuinely only trying to help. I have worked with developers enough to know they can't possibly see all, and have to rely on other people to spot the edge cases where something trips over something else. I'm just a little more hasty than other people because of personal reasons which preclude any "we'll see later" for me. Let me at this point stress again the highly polished, extraordinary piece of work Open General and Open Suite are! I'd be proud if I have contributed any tiny part to that.

I know, as I wrote: "I do appreciate...."

There are several things I'm currently keeping under observation, not knowing if they are supposed to be like that, or if this is genuinely abnormal behavior; I usually vote for "abnormal" when and if it bothers me...

Great, do not hesitate to post anything you find

[hoza]

Hi Luis I have to post this. I admire the cool and great manner with which you handle these posts of an eagerly and ambitioned programmer.

[none]

posts of an eagerly and ambitioned programmer.

Who do you mean by "eagerly and ambitioned programmer"? Not me I hope! I can't code my way out of a paper bag!

I've been hired as an UI designer/brainstormer in a SaaS startup for a couple years, around 2000, that's why I have some insight, even if I can't code myself (except some basic VB I used for prototyping and making bogus UI demos).

[hoza]

posts of an eagerly and ambitioned programmer.

Who do you mean by "eagerly and ambitioned programmer"? Not me I hope! I can't code my way out of a paper bag!

I've been hired as an UI designer/brainstormer in a SaaS startup for a couple years, around 2000, that's why I have some insight, even if I can't code myself (except some basic VB I used for prototyping and making bogus UI demos).

sorry for being misled by your competent contributions. But eagerly and ambitioned seems to be true

[none]

Macht nichts.