Feature Request: Hints!

Discussing the game, editor (Suite) and the related tools.
Post Reply
none
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 252
Joined: 2021-02-03 16:51, Wednesday

Feature Request: Hints!

Post by none » 2023-08-14 08:39, Monday

Yes, I know development is frozen, Luis is at the beach (at least I hope he is) and all that, but I'll still put this here:

Could we have a system (something like the unitpedia) which allows to display hints (help) for each scenario?

I'm imagining something appearing on bottom of the scenario briefing panel (some button which, if there are hints, appears beside the general briefing one), which opens a text page with additional hints concerning that scenario (written by the scenario maker obviously).

Potentially also one on the campaign selection page, so timid/undecided players can read them before selecting a campaign to play.
Obviously if there are no hints, there would be no button/link. :dunno


Right now I put them in a /hints folder inside /scenario), but that might be too complicated to find for some non-technically minded players. It would be more elegant if the player could call them at leisure from inside the game, if (or when) he gets stuck.

--Edited for clarifications

User avatar
LuisGuzman
General, Special Forces
General, Special Forces
Posts: 673
Joined: 2019-03-10 08:35, Sunday
Location: Spain
Contact:

Re: Feature Request: Hints!

Post by LuisGuzman » 2023-08-17 08:44, Thursday

none wrote:
2023-08-14 08:39, Monday
Yes, I know development is frozen, Luis is at the beach (at least I hope he is) and all that, but I'll still put this here:

Could we have a system (something like the unitpedia) which allows to display hints (help) for each scenario?
Yes, development is frozen as that was asked by designers and some players. Argument was that changes makes designers' development really difficult, forcing them to stop until a stable executable was asure. It was not my will, but I understood the logic to freeze the code.

Currently there are very few designers working developing new campaigns, so maybe we could ponder what are the reasons of that fact.

Anyway, I am now too busy as to spend time refreshing the code in my mind in order to star accepting new features, but maybe around Christmas I could do if active designers wants that.

So I'd suggest to post in the Wish List summary for OpenGen / OpenSuite links with a short summary of the wished feature and a link to topic discussing the idea
:2cents
  Visit my website to get my latest tools.
* Click Open General banner to get more info about the game
Image

none
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 252
Joined: 2021-02-03 16:51, Wednesday

Re: Feature Request: Hints!

Post by none » 2023-08-17 09:35, Thursday

LuisGuzman wrote:
2023-08-17 08:44, Thursday
Argument was that changes makes designers' development really difficult, forcing them to stop until a stable executable was asure.
I won't comment, but as somebody who is entirely redoing his old campaigns (besides making new ones) after having completely changed (for the better I hope!) his E-File, I think my opinion on the subject is clear... And no, I'm not retired yet.

LuisGuzman wrote:
2023-08-17 08:44, Thursday
Currently there are very few designers working developing new campaigns
Quod erat demonstrandum...

LuisGuzman wrote:
2023-08-17 08:44, Thursday
but maybe around Christmas I could do if active designers wants that.
Thanks for considering it.

Will add it to that list.
(Uh-oh, wishlists are like catnip to me...)

User avatar
LuisGuzman
General, Special Forces
General, Special Forces
Posts: 673
Joined: 2019-03-10 08:35, Sunday
Location: Spain
Contact:

Re: Feature Request: Hints!

Post by LuisGuzman » 2023-08-19 18:52, Saturday

none wrote:
2023-08-14 08:39, Monday
Could we have a system (something like the unitpedia) which allows to display hints (help) for each scenario?
I'm imagining something appearing on bottom of the scenario briefing panel (some button which, if there are hints, appears beside the general briefing one), which opens a text page with additional hints concerning that scenario (written by the scenario maker obviously).
Potentially also one on the campaign selection page, so timid/undecided players can read them before selecting a campaign to play.
Obviously if there are no hints, there would be no button/link. :dunno
Hi none

Well definitively is not similar to the unitpedia, if I've understood the idea.

But, probably I've not understood it, because it looks to me like an extension of the campaign / scenario intro, as player needs to call the the scenario intro to click a new button to pop a new text panel, why not put the hints in same intro ?
Right now I put them in a /hints folder inside /scenario), but that might be too complicated to find for some non-technically minded players. It would be more elegant if the player could call them at leisure from inside the game, if (or when) he gets stuck.
:huh why that new "hint" panel would allow the player to find the hint easier ?

Maybe using the turn-message feature you could help better rooky players :notsure
  Visit my website to get my latest tools.
* Click Open General banner to get more info about the game
Image

none
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 252
Joined: 2021-02-03 16:51, Wednesday

Re: Feature Request: Hints!

Post by none » 2023-08-20 08:40, Sunday

LuisGuzman wrote:
2023-08-19 18:52, Saturday
it looks to me like an extension of the campaign / scenario intro, as player needs to call the the scenario intro to click a new button to pop a new text panel, why not put the hints in same intro ?
Because it's about hints/spoilers, and some players will be strongly opposed to see them, so I rather prefer to put them in a separate panel you'd need to voluntarily call up. No accidental spoiling.
(Also, I would use this for hints, but somebody else could use it to display the historical background of that battle or some such. Keeping it separate makes it versatile and keeps the noise ratio down, since the briefing panels (mine at least) tend to get very crowded...)

In my campaign intro panels there already is:
  1. the technical part (title, version, number of scenarios, difficulty, etc.)
  2. the blurb which advertises the campaign (why you should play it), mostly for the campaign selector
  3. the real intro, for when you decided to play it and want to know the details, like the historical background and so on.
Some hints come sometimes as a #4, where I break the 4th wall and address the player directly like "Be careful about..."

My scenario briefings have two parts:
  1. In-character briefing, written like if your superior officer briefs you. Like it was in reality, the information given about the enemy can be more or less inaccurate and/or misleading.
  2. a short "Instructions" section, which explains what the scenario expects from you, in OG-talk ("Take all VHs"), and notes any things an inattentive player might miss, like any MSU units and such.
While I add to this second section any important non-spoiler caveats, some players hate getting unsolicited help, so I try to avoid giving any real help there.
Which leaves those who are totally overwhelmed (usually because they've overlooked something I deemed obvious) and all they need is a mere hint about how they should tackle this scenario. :dunno

LuisGuzman wrote:
2023-08-19 18:52, Saturday
:huh why that new "hint" panel would allow the player to find the hint easier ?
Because help would be just one mouse click away... (Sounds like an ad, no?... :lol)
As opposed to having to open up File Explorer, navigate to x:\y\z\Open General\EFILE_NOKORP2\SCENARIO\! HINTS !\Some Campaign\, and locate the right .txt file among many... (Yes, you're a developer, you know your HDs like your living room, but OG players might not be that computer-savvy...)

LuisGuzman wrote:
2023-08-19 18:52, Saturday
Maybe using the turn-message feature you could help better rooky players :notsure
No, because the problem isn't tied to a specific turn. Which turn should I display it? Besides, turn messages appear as little yellow text inside the turn report panel, which is definitely not enough space!
But most importantly, the whole point is to make it optional. If it appears as a turn message players wouldn't be able to avoid it, in this case I can as well cram it into the campaign/scenario panels...

I think you don't really understand what I'm going for: The kind of hints you find in game forums, where player A asks "I'm stuck in situation x, somebody help!" and player B answers "the secret is to do this and that". I already give player B's answer, in case you ever have to ask player A's question... See below for an example.


All that been said, don't worry, I can stay with my "manual" approach.
I just wondered if it wouldn't be easy to open up a specific .txt file in a window, since you did it for the Unitpedia. Looked like the same system to me, tying a specific object (unit/scenario) to a specific .txt file. :dunno
If you think it's too much work, forget about it. I'd rate it as "nice things to have", but since I'm probably the only one who will ever use it, I admit the effort/result ratio is very poor...


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is "NO2Russ45Scen03_HINTS.txt", an example of such a scenario hint:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a *very* big map, moving from A to B in time will be the biggest problem. Keep an eye on the map, and plan well ahead where your units should head to, because the distances mean you can't change your mind.

Buy another couple "Panther F" tanks, given the surface to cover you'll need to split your forces into at least 3 groups.
Ideally you would send your "Deep Assault Group" (with a tank and an AT) south, to clear the western map border, till they reach the "Panzergruppe 1" HQ, then let them head SE. Call it the "Group South"
Send a mobile force with 2 or more tanks, the second AT, the "305mm M.11/16 Siege Mortar" and the two "Sturmhaubitze 42" clear the northern map border, all the way to the east. Call it the "Group North".
Your main force with the heavy "240mm K3" artillery should head SE till it joins with the "Panzergruppe 1", and then take the middle road east, cherry-picking the Victory hexes and only sending a couple units capturing any nearby towns for added prestige. Leave cleaning the small towns to the "Panzergruppe 1" auxilliary forces.

The Aux forces have few tanks, but lots of infantry, some light artillery and even some beefy 88mm AT guns. Don't leave them inactive: Once the enemy offensive is broken, move them and use them to conquer the simple towns (to gain more prestige!). Beware, some towns are protected by dangerous self-propelled AT guns: That's where those towed 88mm AT guns will come handy!
You'll eventually get some (Aux) reinforcements, and among them a bunch of "SdKfz 251/16" with flame throwers. Those will do great against towns defended by infantry. Create several small task groups consisting of one recon, a couple infantry units, one of those "SdKfz 251/16", and send them capture each and every isolated town. You'll make thousands of prestige, and trust me, you'll need it soon, you'll need to buy lots of expensive units if you're to survive the later scenarios...

And speaking of prestige, spend some of it right now, buying an additional fighter-recon ("Bf 109 G-8") and some more fighters, to get a grip on those incessant enemy bombing raids. The map is too big for your fighters to be able to be everywhere. (There is no point in buying any ground vehicles, since they will never be able to catch up with the moving front, the map is way too big.)
Hint: The "Me 410 B-2 Hornisse" is not too bad as a fighter (with the AA special), but also does great work as a bomber, so buy one of those for each of your more isolated groups (North and South). Build airports as you advance, prestige is plenty. You also have two Supply trains which can repair your units, so there is no reason to waste prestige in repairs.

Speaking of trains, the map is covered in railway tracks, use them to move your troops around! You'll also need them to move the Aux "Krupp K5" railway gun, which despite its long range won't cover the whole map. You'll have to decide which part of the map it should cover and move it in time, taking care it doesn't get destroyed, else it's game over (K5s are always MSU)!

I've said it, but I'll repeat it: This is a real terrain situation: The terrain is vast and you need to plan ahead, know for each unit where it will go (rename them if that helps keeping track).
Once the enemy offensive is stopped, and before you start your own counter-offensive, study the map, the Victory Hexes, and plan which force will take which area! At some point your units will be at several turns of distance from each other, and thus isolated. All groups need to be autonomous, and able to tackle any type of resistance, including enemy tanks coming for them (the enemy buys units, so you can guess where they will be coming from...). Don't waste time, you'll have plenty, but given the distances it is easily wasted.

User avatar
LuisGuzman
General, Special Forces
General, Special Forces
Posts: 673
Joined: 2019-03-10 08:35, Sunday
Location: Spain
Contact:

Re: Feature Request: Hints!

Post by LuisGuzman » 2023-08-20 09:19, Sunday

none wrote:
2023-08-20 08:40, Sunday
I think you don't really understand what I'm going for: The kind of hints you find in game forums, where player A asks "I'm stuck in situation x, somebody help!" and player B answers "the secret is to do this and that". I already give player B's answer, in case you ever have to ask player A's question... See below for an example.

All that been said, don't worry, I can stay with my "manual" approach.
I just wondered if it wouldn't be easy to open up a specific .txt file in a window, since you did it for the Unitpedia. Looked like the same system to me, tying a specific object (unit/scenario) to a specific .txt file. :dunno
If you think it's too much work, forget about it. I'd rate it as "nice things to have", but since I'm probably the only one who will ever use it, I admit the effort/result ratio is very poor...
Thanks for the sample hint content, I think I understand now.
Actually it is not a big work if the hint file can be forced to be a .txt file, with same title than scenario/campaign intro, adding a specific suffix to be located aside the scenario/campaign intro (not in a different folder)

example:
if scenario intro is: NOBuSandsXX.txt then the hint files should be NOBuSandsXX_hint.txt
and yes for this purpose it could be shown in an external window, launching the default windows' text editor

I'm adding to the list 2023-2024 :howdy
  Visit my website to get my latest tools.
* Click Open General banner to get more info about the game
Image

none
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 252
Joined: 2021-02-03 16:51, Wednesday

Re: Feature Request: Hints!

Post by none » 2023-08-20 11:12, Sunday

LuisGuzman wrote:
2023-08-20 09:19, Sunday
if the hint file can be forced to be a .txt file, with same title than scenario/campaign intro, adding a specific suffix to be located aside the scenario/campaign intro (not in a different folder)
Well they are .txt files, for simplicity's sake, and I only put them in a specific folder so people can find them easily, since my /scenario folder is very crowded... :lol
The rest (suffix and that) is easy. As you see on the example, the existing hint files already have the exact same name as the scenario + "_HINTS", else I'd be getting lost myself...

Thanks for looking into this, but as I said it's just a "nice to have" feature (low priority, given the overwhelming applause it got from the other scenario makers so far... :lol).

none
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 252
Joined: 2021-02-03 16:51, Wednesday

Re: Feature Request: Hints!

Post by none » 2023-08-25 10:17, Friday

Note, I think that most my campaigns will only have a single, general hint page (1 page for the whole campaign).
While some rare campaigns might be complicated enough to warrant scenario-by-scenario hints pages, I realize for most campaigns players just need to be given the general idea of what's to come, what to be careful about and what to avoid.

My point is, I think that adding a "Hints" button only inside the main campaign briefing would cover the vast majority of cases.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is "NO2Blitzkrieg_HINTS.txt", an example of such a campaign-wide hint:
(Note, no "Scen_" + number in the name - same system as the campaign/scenario briefings)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"NOKORP Blitzkrieg" - Hints

If you've already played any NOKORP campaign there won't be any surprise: As always, you'll eventually need to split your troops into two (or more) equally strong task forces, each going their separate way to conquer a different part of the map. Then there is always a wildcard, light, ultra-mobile group which can go after secondary targets or chase the more distant ones.
Don't worry, you'll be given all the units you need, when you need them. You could probably even play the whole campaign without ever buying a unit. Your task, much like in real life, it to decide how to best use what you've been given.

Another standard of my scenarios is the use (and need!) for supply and repair units. Those are special units which either supply, repair, or supply *and* repair any adjacent units. Repairing only happens if the repair unit has action points left (so you'd better not move them much, just leave them nearby, somewhere damaged units can quickly go to get repaired). No repair units for planes though, for those you'll have to spend prestige, so be careful.
Now "supply" units are especially important for heavy artillery, allowing it to fire continuously instead of needing to lose a turn every now and then to resupply. They also allow your tanks to move quickly longer distances if the scenario requires it (and it often does). This is a "Blitzkrieg" after all...
Note your first supply units are wheeled and do poorly outside of roads. Keep them for your (quite static) heavy artillery. By the France campaign you'll get some very mobile half-tracked supply units which can follow your front line units anywhere.

Beware when upgrading, your units lose 15% of their experience (because they are not used to the new equipment), and given how important experience is, don't try to follow the technology all too closely, except when it's *really* necessary (you don't want to tackle France with Pz II tanks for instance...). Sometimes the scenario briefing will hint that upgrading would be a good idea, in this case better do it.
(You should read those briefings BTW, they might seem verbose and unnecessary, but they often contain precious hints.)

Very important: What to do with your prestige points when you can neither upgrade or buy? Overstrength some units! Especially artillery becomes much more lethal when overstrength, and since it doesn't (normally) get beaten up, prestige spent there will carry over to the next battles. I'd suggest to put your artillery at 12 strength (or more if you're swimming in prestige), it will make it absolutely deadly later on, and be the key to victory. Even small artillery like mortars benefits from being overstrength, so do Flaks.
Also, for some scenarios you might need to purchase the "Bunker Buster" attachment (little bomb icon) for your artillery, to get quicker through the enemy bunkers. When? Use your intuition and the scenario briefing... Note that once you have it, it will remain, so it's a good investment for artillery. And if one day you're really short on prestige, you can always resell it and get your money back!
That's for the generalities.


The campaign starts softly, as you'll almost be a spectator in a battle of other parties. Use it to make your units gain experience, experience is very important in Open General: A weaker but elite unit can successfully fight against better but inexperienced equipment.

During the campaign you'll usually won't be able to upgrade or buy units, except at specific points: Obviously when two scenarios follow closely (couple days later) there would be no time to bring in quantities of new gear, train the users, and all that. Given the crowded timeline of WWII, you'll mostly only get to change your equipment between major theaters (Spain to Poland, Poland to France, and so on).

One question you'll probably have: How do you get to conquer the world, instead of making a last stand against overwhelming Russian forces in Berlin?
It's quite simple actually, "Brilliant Victories" are the key to America. There are a couple branches where a "BV" will land you on a battle your school history lessons never mentioned... At that point you'll know you're off to conquer the world, but beware, you'll need to stay exceptionally good, else it's back to the classic timeline and that last stand in Berlin.

Note that while defeat usually means the end of the campaign for you, sometimes it doesn't really matter (use your judgment, and your history knowledge) because even after losing you go on. Obviously this will happen often towards the (historical) end, when winning becomes extremely difficult and also mostly pointless (you might win a battle, but the war is already lost). Short version: Some scenarios are (almost) impossible to not lose, for obvious, historical reasons.

And one last piece of advice: Scenario requirements vary, and you might have to change your force accordingly, or even fight with only a small subset of your core force. Always be flexible and adapt, that's the characteristics of a god general!...
Have fun!

Post Reply