Playtest: Ottoman Campaign (maybe next CC?)

Tips and tricks for the designers, playtests.

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Blitzstoper
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Playtest: Ottoman Campaign (maybe next CC?)

Post by Blitzstoper » 2019-10-19 10:06, Saturday

OpenGen 0.92.0.5 * 9 Dec 2018 * AI: Default
Efile folder: D:\1Programy\Open General\efile_kaiser\ * Efile version: Kaiser Efile V.07/08/16
Campaign: 1897-1922 TURKISH CAMPAIGN, * Player prestige modifier 100% * AI prestige modifier 100%

This is campaign made by many members of OpG community. I was around at the start of the designing of the campaign, then I was absent, so I can't give a proper credits to the designers. Its design is sound and there is no obvious bugs.

So I playtest this campaign, as a possible next Campaign Challenge. So my main goal is to check for any inconstancies and point of frustration.
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1 Battle of Velestino

Very auxiliary heavy scenario, so it's not the ideal scenario for the start. But it's not bad either. IIRC the idea was the have the same number of the units in the every scenario, so there is a lot of the auxilairies at the start, and less at the end.

The last AI's VH is defended by the infantry, which has "Determinated Defence" leader. It multiplies the defensive values of the defenders (basic GD+4, leader adds another 6) and makes the final assault almost impossible. It is extremely frustrating.

I would suggest to remove the leader.
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2 Domokos

Another auxiliary heavy scenario.
There is also a leader for AI's infantry, what is not exactly a bug, but it's designer mistake. Infantry leader can be a game changer, especially at the early stage of the campaign. The initial Player's VH is undefended and can be taken by roaming 1-sp AI's recon, what ends the whole campaign as a loss. It's a bug, because scenario must be logical, and losing by the bad chance is not logical.

I would suggest to remove the infantry leaders
I would suggest to put the fortifications into the Player's VH.

_______________________________________


3 Battle of El Hani and Bu Meliana

The scenarios No2 and No3 were designed by Yours Truly :bs. The scenario No2 was easy, as it should grant the prototype for the player - the protos are restricted in the first part of the campaign except the scenario No2. But it was considered as too easy, and reworked to something harder.
The protype roster also changed. There were 3 planes available and a MG. Now there are also Flak unit and AD unit, which are completely useless.

The protos were tricky. Airplanes were much more better than the MG, but if player got one of the planes, he could not deploy it during this scenario, there were no airfields :evil

There are also undefended Player's VH, which is not fine.

I would strongly suggest to remove the AD and Flak from the prototype roster.
I would suggest to fortify the Player's VH.
I would consider to add an airfield - the frustrations of the player would be less.

_______________________________________


4 The trenches at Janzour

Strange scenario. During the first run i was beaten, during the second run I killed all the AI's units. This is something wrong with the designing :o but it's playable.
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1897-1922 TURKISH CAMPAIGN

Played Scenarios:
1 Battle of Velestino , #0 , Brilliant Victory , score:51
2 Domokos , #1 , Brilliant Victory , score:50 +++ Proto: 8mm. Schwarzlose M.07/12
3 Battle of El Hani and Bu Meliana , #2 , Brilliant Victory , score:50
4 The trenches at Janzour , #3 , Brilliant Victory , score:51
--
Campaign score: 202 * Average: 50

..
Current scenario: Battle of Kirk Kilisse, VH prestige is 160 , All map prestige is: 160
Army cost: 192 , Current prestige is 128
AI stance is Aggressive
if BV: +210, Çatalca line , cap 640, 15 turns prestige: 120
if V : +160, Çatalca line , cap 640, 19 turns prestige: 180
if TV: +120, Çatalca line , cap 640, 23 turns prestige: 180
if Ls: +120, Çatalca line , cap 640, 23 turns prestige: 180

Heavy Cavalry/Tanks
* Süvari , CR/6CD/Suleiman Pasha , 4 bars , 468 exp , 10/10 , 42 kill , 0 pp [+156 exp]

Machine Guns
8mm. Schwarzlose M.07/12 , , 0 bars , 73 exp , 10/10 , 1 kill , 192 pp [+73 exp]
+ 8mm. Schwarzlose M.07/12 , Katirlar 09 , , 2 bars , 251 exp , 10/10 , 1 kill , 0 pp [+91 exp]

Cruiser
* Light Cruiser , Hamidiye , 2 bars , 244 exp , 10/10 , Aggressive Attack , 3 kill , 0 pp [+40 exp]

Player 1 : Ottoman Empire
Killed: INF:57 TNK:4 RCN:7 FORT:25 ATY:18 TB:1 CRs:1 Total: 113
Lost : INF:17 TNK:3 RCN:4 FORT:8 Total: 32

BV 4
V 0
TV 0
L 0

:bs

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Wonderdoctor
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Re: Playtest: Ottoman Campaign (maybe next CC?)

Post by Wonderdoctor » 2019-10-19 14:54, Saturday

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Urica
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Re: Playtest: Ottoman Campaign (maybe next CC?)

Post by Urica » 2019-10-19 18:13, Saturday

Blitzstoper wrote:
2019-10-19 10:06, Saturday
Domokos
I would suggest to remove the infantry leaders
I would suggest to put the fortifications into the Player's VH.
What? The Garibaldini without a leader? Never! :noway
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Blitzstoper
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Re: Playtest: Ottoman Campaign (maybe next CC?)

Post by Blitzstoper » 2019-10-23 16:57, Wednesday

Urica wrote:
2019-10-19 18:13, Saturday
Blitzstoper wrote:
2019-10-19 10:06, Saturday
Domokos
I would suggest to remove the infantry leaders
I would suggest to put the fortifications into the Player's VH.
What? The Garibaldini without a leader? Never! :noway
:-? Garibaldi died 1882, so it's quite logical, that Garibaldini in 1896 MUST be without leader :rip
But if You disagree, the duel will solve the problem :fight
Choose the weapon:
:uzi :gun
:poke :wife
:sherman :tiger
Wonderdoctor wrote:
2019-10-19 14:54, Saturday
The design thread: http://www.panzercentral.com/forum/view ... it=turkish
This link wasn't really necessary :sigh
Now I have to check the facts, and can't pretend, that all the good scenarios are designed by me, and all the bad scenarios are designed by the others :whatever
________________________


Battle of Kirk Kilisse

Much better than the previous scenarios. Maybe not exactly hard, but complex. The player have to think and manoeuvre.

No changes
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Çatalca line , #5 , Victory :thud

I though I did a BV here and noticed the actual outcome right now :| I didn't calculate the VHs properly :o and didn't pushed for the last BV. If I pushed, I would probably win. Besides: all BV aren't a must.

No changes
________________________


Liberation of Edirne , #6 , Brilliant Victory , score:51 +++ Proto: Albatros C.I

Fine, little battle.

No changes
________________________


5 Battle of Kirk Kilisse , #4 , Brilliant Victory , score:55
6 Çatalca line , #5 , Victory , score:35
7 Liberation of Edirne , #6 , Brilliant Victory , score:51 +++ Proto: Albatros C.I
--
Campaign score: 343 * Average: 49

..
Current scenario: Raid on Misir, VH prestige is 0 , All map prestige is: 0
Army cost: 768 , Current prestige is 252
AI stance is Aggressive
if BV: +150, Gelibolu (Gallipoli) , cap 1200, 12 turns prestige: 120
if V : +100, Gelibolu (Gallipoli) , cap 1200, 15 turns prestige: 180
if TV: +50, Gelibolu (Gallipoli) , cap 1200, 18 turns prestige: 240
if Ls: +50, Gelibolu (Gallipoli) , cap 1200, 18 turns prestige: 240

Infantry
Nisanci 09 , , 0 bars , 67 exp , 10/10 , 3 kill , 144 pp [+67 exp]

Heavy Cavalry/Tanks
* Süvari , CR/6CD/Suleiman Pasha , 5 bars , 710 exp , 10/10 , 67 kill , 0 pp [+74 exp]

Light Cavalry/Recon
Charron 02 , , 2 bars , 213 exp , 10/10 , Infiltration Tactics , 6 kill , 312 pp [+58 exp]

Machine Guns
+ 8mm. Schwarzlose M.07/12 , Katirlar 09 , , 4 bars , 466 exp , 10/10 , Aggressive Maneuver , Fast Speed, 6 kill , 0 pp [+36 exp]

Artillery
7,5/30sm. Krup Top M.98 , Arabasi , , 1 bars , 145 exp , 10/10 , 0 kill , 312 pp [+37 exp]

Bomber/Scout
+ Albatros C.I , , 0 bars , 0 exp , 10/10 , 0 kill , 0 pp

Cruiser
* Light Cruiser , Hamidiye , 2 bars , 297 exp , 10/10 , Aggressive Attack , 6 kill , 0 pp

Player 1 : Ottoman Empire
Killed: INF:108 TNK:6 RCN:12 AT:3 FLAK:2 FORT:32 ATY:24 TB:1 CRs:1 Total: 189
Lost : INF:19 TNK:3 RCN:6 FORT:8 Total: 36

:bs

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Ale
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Re: Playtest: Ottoman Campaign (maybe next CC?)

Post by Ale » 2019-10-23 21:24, Wednesday

interestingly (or not, if one dislikes historical talks) i researched Garibaldists this year for my (not to be ever) domestic campaign as military formations in wars 1876-1878 and turned out (by the texts of Garibaldi's grandaugther herself) that they opened first freemason's lodge here in those years :) probably someone influential was always with them be it few hundreds or thousands around ;) didn't find enough precise data to put them in my scenarios, but there is story that their hundreds showed high spirit in bad situations..... what that has to do with camp - nothing, just for historical lovers and less known facts as you mentioned it.

i'm naturally "this & there" about Turkish campaign :) but hope it is fun

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Blitzstoper
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Re: Playtest: Ottoman Campaign (maybe next CC?)

Post by Blitzstoper » 2019-10-26 07:47, Saturday

Very interesting ^^^
It's good to know, that there are countries in Europe, where freemasonry appeared as late, as XIX century.

8 Raid on Misir , #7 , Brilliant Victory , score:55

Very interesting scenario, full of action and fun, but... I did BV-6.

No changes anyway
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9 Gelibolu (Gallipoli) , #8 , Brilliant Victory , score:50

I really don't like this kind of scenario :irate
Chaotic, hectic, AI's units pop up in various zones, the battle results are insane (HMS Queen Elisabteth took 9sp from my artillery - with a single shot). During the campaign I would play it two times, and the second run would be much better than the first.
But I know, there are players, who like such scenarios :nyet

This is "hold the VH" scenario. There are 8 VHs at all. BV is for holding 5 VHs. Which is rather easy, as I hold all the VH and destroyed all the AI's ground units.

I would rework the victory conditions: either make the scenario shorter, or increase the number of VHs, that must be hold
___________________________


Campaign score: 448 * Average: 49

..
Current scenario: Fighting in Kafkasya: Arhavi- Findikli, VH prestige is 0 , All map prestige is: 40
Army cost: 1080 , Current prestige is 420
AI stance is Aggressive
if BV: +100, Kut al Amara , cap 1600, 12 turns prestige: 120
if V : +50, Kut al Amara , cap 1600, 12 turns prestige: 120
if TV: +0, Kut al Amara , cap 1600, 12 turns prestige: 120
if Ls: +0, Kut al Amara , cap 1600, 12 turns prestige: 120

Infantry
Nisanci 09 , , 2 bars , 278 exp , 10/10 , 6 kill , 144 pp [+63 exp]

Heavy Cavalry/Tanks
* Süvari , CR/6CD/Suleiman Pasha , 5 bars , 921 exp , 10/10 , 80 kill , 0 pp [+87 exp]

Light Cavalry/Recon
Charron 02 , , 4 bars , 440 exp , 10/10 , Infiltration Tactics , 12 kill , 312 pp [+64 exp]

Machine Guns
+ 8mm. Schwarzlose M.07/12 , Katirlar 09 , , 5 bars , 693 exp , 10/10 , Aggressive Maneuver , Fast Speed, 9 kill , 0 pp [+107 exp]

Artillery
7,5/30sm. Krup Top M.98 , Arabasi , , 2 bars , 236 exp , 10/10 , 2 kill , 312 pp [+69 exp]
7,5/30sm. Krup Top M.98 , Arabasi , , 0 bars , 87 exp , 10/10 , 1 kill , 312 pp [+30 exp]

Bomber/Scout
+ Albatros C.I , , 2 bars , 253 exp , 10/10 , Resilience , 6 kill , 0 pp [+148 exp]

Cruiser
* Light Cruiser , Hamidiye , 4 bars , 474 exp , 10/10 , Aggressive Attack , 10 kill , 0 pp [+138 exp]

Player 1 : Ottoman Empire
Killed: INF:138 TNK:6 RCN:12 AT:3 FLAK:5 FORT:46 ATY:31 TB:3 BS:2 CRs:3 Total: 249
Lost : INF:23 TNK:4 RCN:6 FORT:27 BS:1 Total: 61

:bs

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Re: Playtest: Ottoman Campaign (maybe next CC?)

Post by Blitzstoper » 2019-11-16 10:56, Saturday

10 Fighting in Kafkasya: Arhavi- Findikli

Very intensive - and interesting - scenario. A little bit hard - it's easy to lost a unit - but...
...seems completely legit for CC.
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11 Kut al Amara

Another good scenario. Intensive and full of action. The only fault is, that BV seems to be the only option - AI can't reach the only VH in time. But it's not a bug - it's a feature.
Fits for C.
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12 Supporting the allies: Kobadin ,

Too many auxiliaries for my taste. It isn't also properly balanced: I did BV-6 (and 7 was possible, but I ressuplied recon car at the beginning of the game-turn, so couldn't reach the last VH).
Playable, but victory conditions could be reworked.
________________________________


10 Fighting in Kafkasya: Arhavi- Findikli , #9 , Brilliant Victory , score:50
11 Kut al Amara , #10 , Brilliant Victory , score:49 +++ Proto: 22,5sm. Havan M.15
12 Supporting the allies: Kobadin , #11 , Brilliant Victory , score:66
--
Campaign score: 613 * Average: 51

..
Current scenario: Supporting the allies: Galicia, VH prestige is 0 , All map prestige is: 0
Army cost: 2004 , Current prestige is 588
AI stance is Aggressive
if BV: +120, Second Battle of Gaza , cap 2780, 8 turns prestige: 120
if V : +120, Second Battle of Gaza , cap 2780, 8 turns prestige: 120
if TV: +80, Second Battle of Gaza , cap 2780, 8 turns prestige: 120
if Ls: +80, Second Battle of Gaza , cap 2780, 8 turns prestige: 120

Infantry
Nisanci 09 , , 4 bars , 400 exp , 10/10 , 10 kill , 144 pp [+35 exp]
Istihkâmci 09 , Arabasi , , 0 bars , 60 exp , 10/10 , 1 kill , 264 pp [+60 exp]

Heavy Cavalry/Tanks
* Süvari , CR/6CD/Suleiman Pasha , 5 bars , 1067 exp , 10/10 , 98 kill , 0 pp [+66 exp]

Light Cavalry/Recon
Charron 02 , , 5 bars , 571 exp , 10/10 , Infiltration Tactics , Recon, 21 kill , 312 pp [+45 exp]

Machine Guns
+ 8mm. Schwarzlose M.07/12 , Katirlar 09 , , 5 bars , 888 exp , 10/10 , Aggressive Maneuver , 13 kill , 0 pp [+59 exp]

Artillery
10,5/16sm. Krup Obüs M.98/09 , Daimler-Marienfelde ALZ 13 , , 3 bars , 365 exp , 10/10 , Infiltration Tactics , 4 kill , 468 pp [+28 exp]
7,5/30sm. Krup Top M.98 , Arabasi , , 2 bars , 221 exp , 10/10 , Aggressive Maneuver , 1 kill , 312 pp [+46 exp]
7,5/30sm. Atli Topçu , , 2 bars , 228 exp , 10/10 , 1 kill , 504 pp [+48 exp]
+ 22,5sm. Havan M.15 , Daimler-Marienfelde ALZ 13 , , 0 bars , 46 exp , 10/10 , 1 kill , 0 pp [+46 exp]

Bomber/Scout
+ Albatros C.I , , 5 bars , 569 exp , 10/10 , Resilience , 8 kill , 0 pp [+101 exp]

Cruiser
* Light Cruiser , Hamidiye , 5 bars , 600 exp , 10/10 , Aggressive Attack , 15 kill , 0 pp

Player 1 : Ottoman Empire
Killed: INF:191 TNK:6 RCN:21 AT:6 FLAK:10 FORT:59 ATY:42 AD:1 FTR:1 TB:6 SUB:1 DD:4 BS:2 CRs:5 Total: 355
Lost : INF:48 TNK:4 RCN:11 AT:2 FLAK:1 FORT:50 ATY:9 SUB:1 DD:1 BS:1 CRs:1 Total: 129

Averages:
Infantry * 2 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 460 exp, 11 kill, 408 pp Average: 230 exp, 6 kill, 204 pp
Heavy Cavalry/Tanks * 1 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 1067 exp, 98 kill, 0 pp Average: 1067 exp, 98 kill, 0 pp
Light Cavalry/Recon * 1 Units * 1 Leaders Total : 571 exp, 21 kill, 312 pp Average: 571 exp, 21 kill, 312 pp
Machine Guns * 1 Units * 1 Leaders Total : 888 exp, 13 kill, 0 pp Average: 888 exp, 13 kill, 0 pp
Artillery * 4 Units * 2 Leaders Total : 860 exp, 7 kill, 1284 pp Average: 215 exp, 2 kill, 321 pp
Bomber/Scout * 1 Units * 1 Leaders Total : 569 exp, 8 kill, 0 pp Average: 569 exp, 8 kill, 0 pp
Cruiser * 1 Units * 1 Leaders Total : 600 exp, 15 kill, 0 pp Average: 600 exp, 15 kill, 0 pp
* Summary: * 11 Units * 6 Leaders Total : 5015 exp, 173 kill, 2004 pp Average: 456 exp, 16 kill, 182 pp

:bs

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