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what to copy to the new forum?

Posted: 2019-10-01 07:45, Tuesday
by lvjtn
first of all, i strongly recommend waiting for active jp members to join in order to let everybody decide what s/he thinks is important to copy from his/her threads and posts, so these items and any further posts are only suggestions. i ask everybody to not copy somebody else's thread without the explicit approval of the original poster. the important threads written by inactive members are other stories, maybe the admins can post them later noticing the original author :dunno

i will update this first post time to time when something will be copied or a new thread will be suggested

1. documentation

a) opengen suggested readings by Luis, though it should be updated (e.g. links to the docs on the open-general.com )

b) jp's topic: faq and howto... by several posters ( jp's faq and howto... with opengen )

i have selected and copied the useful and still valid entries from the first four pages and added them to the faq section of our site, so my proposal is asking Dragoş, our new documentation expert to select (and update, if necessary) the useful posts from page5-page8, and we should open only a fresh thread for the questions, and eventually all answers would be copied to the faq section of our website and Luis can copy the most important to his site too. i'm working on a good search form of the faq entries copied to our site. the longer explanations can be added as manuals /howtos on our site

EDIT: saved and cleaned html source of the page5-page8 too, i can send them to Dragoş / Chris or anybody else who is interested in selecting the useful content, i also opened a thread here for the new questions

c) manuals, tutorials and things like that... by several posters

imo it would be enough to add the og school in english to the aforementioned manuals /howtos on our site ( :poke myself ) and let this thread to sink on jp :2cents

d) panzer general 2 faq and important links

yes, it's about pg2, but there are several things which are still valids (like gaining exp, leader promotion), maybe the useful parts should be selected and saved as faq :dunno

e) pg2 essential readings

same as before. i can remove the ez codes easily if it helps

i saved all these pages, just in case, and i also recommend to do the same for other "candidates". the "save as..." from the browser is enough, i can write scripts to clean the html mess. just don't forget to save ALL pages of a thread. and no, 100+ pages of the bug report threads shouldn't be saved :lol

Re: what to copy to the new forum?

Posted: 2019-10-02 07:31, Wednesday
by lvjtn
2. design (map, icon, sound, efile, campaign, gui, etc. making)

a) campaign making for pg2 by pzm

it should be updated to opengen (Dragoş, Chris, see, there are so many docs what you can work on :lol ), and also can be added to the manuals/howto section of the opengen site

b) <JP's topic: icon requests> by several posters (JP's icon requests).

while this thread seems to be dead, now we got Juankar's latest inf and cold war vehicles templates, what i will add to the repo, so maybe talented icon makers can actually complete a few of the requests. so maybe someone can collect the valid requests eventually :dunno

EDIT: Clemens started to copy the relevant posts. See viewtopic.php?f=7&t=136

c) <JP's topic: campaigns in the making>] maintained by Jurgen ( JP's campaigns in the making).

just in case you find it useful and Jurgen still has the time to update the list regularly

EDIT: Jurgen opened a new thread for the current plans. See viewtopic.php?f=7&t=134

***

of course, these are only my proposals, nothing is mandatory

***
I've edited a bit the "struk" items moving the link to JP's after the text, and also added link to the new topic. Hope everybody would agree this way is easier to check which items are unassigned yet :ihope

Re: what to copy to the new forum?

Posted: 2019-10-02 08:39, Wednesday
by Wonderdoctor
c) campaigns in the making maintained by Jurgen

just in case you find it useful and Jurgen still has the time to update the list regularly

of course, these are only my proposals, nothing is mandatory
I'll start the topic from scratch. Not sure if all those dreams mentioned before are still alive.

Re: what to copy to the new forum?

Posted: 2019-10-02 09:42, Wednesday
by randowe
lvjtn wrote:
b) icon requests by several posters

while this thread seems to be dead, now we got Juankar's latest inf and cold war vehicles templates, what i will add to the repo, so maybe talented icon makers can actually complete a few of the requests. so maybe someone can collect the valid requests eventually :dunno
I can copy the icon requests :yes

Re: what to copy to the new forum?

Posted: 2019-10-02 17:17, Wednesday
by mythos
lvjtn wrote:
2019-10-01 07:45, Tuesday
a) opengen suggested readings by Luis, though it should be updated (e.g. links to the docs on the open-general.com )
I will look into it, but no promises at the moment.
(incomplete ? ) back up list:
- documentation and links
- Campaigns: PG2 scenario&campaign design - Essential Reading
- PG2 / OG differences


lvjtn wrote:
2019-10-01 07:45, Tuesday
b) faq and howto... with opengen by several posters

i have selected and copied the useful and still valid entries from the first four pages and added them to the faq section of our site, so my proposal is asking Dragoş, our new documentation expert to select (and update, if necessary) the useful posts from page5-page8, and we should open only a fresh thread for the questions, and eventually all answers would be copied to the faq section of our website and Luis can copy the most important to his site too. i'm working on a good search form of the faq entries copied to our site. the longer explanations can be added as manuals /howtos on our site
I recommend still having a full-grown forum topic about it. This makes it easier to discuss things and to give more info in general - by, for example, sorting the thread.
My idea is to create a topic with some 20 [place holder] postings, and a link section in the starting post. So, for example, someone asks about Support Fire, s/he could be send to the posting which deals with SF and Single Fire Support, Artillery+AD+Ship classes and indirect Fire.
Imho, the new thread should collect
- FAQ and How to ... with OpenGen
- and there were tons of questions and answers in the Questions & Bugs thread, which are potentially missing elsewhere

That's a job to my liking.

lvjtn wrote:
2019-10-01 07:45, Tuesday
d) panzer general 2 faq and important links

yes, it's about pg2, but there are several things which are still valids (like gaining exp, leader promotion), maybe the useful parts should be selected and saved as faq :dunno

e) pg2 essential readings

same as before. i can remove the ez codes easily if it helps
Can be merged with point b) above, after all, these are FAQs (maybe not "frequent" but still) :dunno
And yes please: cleaning deprecated code would help a lot :nods

Re: what to copy to the new forum?

Posted: 2019-10-03 07:23, Thursday
by lvjtn
mythos wrote:
2019-10-02 17:17, Wednesday
- documentation and links
- Campaigns: PG2 scenario&campaign design - Essential Reading
- PG2 / OG differences
:dunno both (faq, campaign design) threads are already on the list
mythos wrote: I recommend still having a full-grown forum topic about it [=faq]. This makes it easier to discuss things and to give more info in general - by, for example, sorting the thread.
of course we should have a NEW faq thread for the NEW questions, but the right place to store the already existing, verified faq (or longer howto/manual) entries is our website, where we use tags, and i can eventually add a full text search. forum is not the right place to store faq (just think about maintaining/updating difficulties)

you can contact with Dragoş how to share this task (or even reading the 100+ pages of the old "questions and bugs" thread), i would appreciate any saved, VERIFIED new faq / howto entry what i can add to our website, no matter who send it to me :D

Re: what to copy to the new forum?

Posted: 2019-10-03 18:44, Thursday
by mythos
lvjtn wrote:
2019-10-03 07:23, Thursday
mythos wrote: I recommend still having a full-grown forum topic about it [=faq]. This makes it easier to discuss things and to give more info in general - by, for example, sorting the thread.
of course we should have a NEW faq thread for the NEW questions, but the right place to store the already existing, verified faq (or longer howto/manual) entries is our website, where we use tags, and i can eventually add a full text search. forum is not the right place to store faq (just think about maintaining/updating difficulties)
I disagree, website and forum are both the "correct" place for existing info.
First things first: i'm not in the mood of arguing (argue as in "fight/dispute/quarrel" ). My background is wiki/forum documentarist and as such i naturally favour the added possibilities of them, but if the split of website:forum is generally preferred, then i join the chorus. However, i first need to throw a couple of things into the room, which should be considered before a final decision.


1) the forum has [write/comment] and [ quote] functions, simplifying communication.

2) the website doesn't have a [write/comment] function.
Being on website but having a question about X means that you need to get the text of X, go to the forum and ask on the forum anyway.

3) sources of info are split.
If you have a question about X, Y and Z, but X is on website while Y and Z are on forum, then you need to work with 2 different sources.
Not only you = the person asking needs to work with 2 different sources, but the person answering needs to do that too.

=> there might be more, and the above might lead to other, however those 3 are the bigger points imho
=> A forum thread can be made up of a link collection (start post), which allows navigating to different posts, which then can be quoted respectively refered to.
Of course, website entries have tags for navigation, and text can be copied/linked to tell what you are refering to or asking about.
Point is, a forum fulfills these jobs more conveniently, and you need the forum for communication anyway (except a comment function gets implemented on the website itself).

4) maintaining/updating
Website = 1 person.
Forum = at least 2 people - the thread starter and any Admin (and any Moderator + Global Moderator, if appicable). Thus, if thread starter is absent, there are still people able to maintain the thread.
It would also be possible to create a FAQ subforum (About the Game -> Open General -> FAQ) which is moderated by Documentarist(s) (and then still by Admins + Mods). Thus theoretically and practically, the forum has more personnel.
But that's just my :2cents i understand that Admins + Mods have other tasks and a real life.


Regarding OG (respectively JP's), my understanding so far was
- website = short FAQ entries
- forum = detailed explanation of FAQ entries + questions and answers, general discussion, as well as long FAQs/Guides
allowing for a co-existence, but more importantly creating a synergy, of both. As such i am :fused by the push to externalize the forum to the website (see the question "please specify" below).
From my experience, splitting is usally only sensible if there is a specific reason to do it (i.e. [forum = more people read it -> no spoilers], while [wiki = fewer people read it -> spoilers included, spoilers can be hidden by formatting] ), otherwise it just confuses and makes work unnecessary difficult.


lvjtn wrote:
2019-10-03 07:23, Thursday
you can contact with Dragoş how to share this task (or even reading the 100+ pages of the old "questions and bugs" thread), i would appreciate any saved, VERIFIED new faq / howto entry what i can add to our website, no matter who send it to me :D
So, i wasn't confused yesterday ? Then i'm confused now :D
I thought the request in the other thread had something to do with writing FAQs (i.e. updating [OG School] pdf's or [How To's] like Campaign Creation), while here it was a general request to backup old forum threads.
I'll contact Dragoş - 4 eyes see more than 2 and such, and as said i like this kind of job.

Just, please specify:
- what kind of data do you want transfered to the website ?
- what kind of data shall be copied to the new forum ?
- is there any formatting you need or prefer for website entries ?

Re: what to copy to the new forum?

Posted: 2019-10-03 19:28, Thursday
by lvjtn
sorry, i've got a few time now, so i just summarize:

a forum is a terrible place for faq: it's unsearchable (please, send me the link pointing to the post on jp forums about how to set the linux wine regedit in order to run the sdl2 exe within seconds. mission impossible), uncategorized (no tags), unchecked (anybody can write anything, sometimes misleading and only partially true posts), mostly outdated (not easy/impossible to keep uptodate), full of irrelevant chit-chat, etc. i know this very well, because i copied the first four pages of the old jp's opengen faq thread, and tried to clean it form the junk, obsolete, false, irrelevant posts, it was quite demanding job, so these are the reasons why i think a community deserves something better then faq threads on a forum

so what we'd like to do is exactly the same what Luis and i randomly did: collecting the useful posts form the forums, fixing /updating them, adding some screenshots, and putting on the new site and/or Luis' site, in an ordered fashion (see the combat formulas or cfg explanations on Luis' site). as i said, i can write a full text search modul for faq (howtos are in pdf, so they will be ignored, but they are longer, and their titles should tell everything about them), i hoped i explained it in the other thread, sorry if i failed to do it correctly

people who want to learn about the game will visit Luis' site and/or the official website, and they rarely will read hundreds of pages of a forum thread for an answer which might be obsolete, false, misleading

a faq thread is good to collect and answer the new questions. and an "essential readings" closed thread here should have the collected links pointing to the hopefully organized / verified documentation on open-general.com and Luis' site. what would be good to prevent: several separated threads with full of partially useful information instead of a centralized, checked, regularly maintained documentation page :2cents

Re: what to copy to the new forum?

Posted: 2019-10-03 21:06, Thursday
by mythos
:huh :fused :dunno after 20 minutes of writing something i realized that i should go back to the beginning:
As said, i'm uninterested in arguing - i can compromise, and since you prefer to compress everything to the website...
mythos wrote:
2019-10-03 18:44, Thursday
please specify:
- what kind of data shall be copied to the new forum ?
- what kind of data shall be copied to the website ?
- is there a formatting which you prefer for website entries - and how shall they be send to you ?
:nods

Re: what to copy to the new forum?

Posted: 2019-10-03 21:39, Thursday
by lvjtn
mythos wrote:
2019-10-03 21:06, Thursday
please specify:
- what kind of data shall be copied to the new forum ?
- what kind of data shall be copied to the website ?
- is there a formatting which you prefer for website entries - and how shall they be send to you ?
all pg2 and og related documentation (readme, manual, faq, etc.) threads mentioned in this thread are full of gold, covered by lots of dirt, imo. i absolutely trust the veterans like you to know how to find the gold :) but if i should summarize it, the goal would be collecting any useful (= what you think can help the beginners or other special audience in playing /designing), valid (= still works with the latest opengen, suite or other related tools) intels, hints, explanations, descriptions. yes, this "gold digging" usually means modifying the original texts (updating the obsolete parts, removing the irrelevant parts, fixing the language, etc.)

sometimes (often) a screenshot would make easier to understand anything, so i always recommend to add screenshots to any kind of documentation

the shorter, easier tips (like "can i have more than 15 leaders?" or "where can i change the resolution?") can be added as faqs, the longer ones (like "how to create a new map/scenario/icon/campaign?") can be howtos/manuals

the preffered format is formatted txt (using something unique for bold, italics, underline, etc. texts), clean html (the least elements, the better) or a formatted doc, docx, rtf, odt. unsupported formats are anything what can't be edited easily, like pdf, ps. preferred formats for screenshots is 24/8-bit png (jpg/gif is also acceptable if it already exists, but not preferred)

edit: maybe it would be better to openly coordinate this "documentation saving" project to avoid more persons working on the same thread :dunno :huh

Re: what to copy to the new forum?

Posted: 2019-10-07 09:32, Monday
by lvjtn
Luis and i uppdated the first two posts

as i see, og forum (except the updated essential readings thread) and designers' corner are more or less fine, but lots of important efiles are still missing ( :poke Lupo, Matt, Matze, Adler, etc.). there are "abandoned" efiles (like Clu, OLGWW2 + OLGCW, Composite), there are unofficial efiles (like Gustlik's efile). what can we do with them? :dunno

Re: what to copy to the new forum?

Posted: 2019-10-07 10:15, Monday
by randowe
I can ask Clu in the Rayydar's Forum if he is interested in opening a thread about his efile here. I wanted to contact him anyway because of the map numbers he has still booked and which i could maybe take over in order to shorten the list of reserved map numbers.

Re: what to copy to the new forum?

Posted: 2019-10-09 09:57, Wednesday
by lvjtn
randowe wrote:
2019-10-07 10:15, Monday
I can ask Clu in the Rayydar's Forum if he is interested in opening a thread about his efile here.
great, thanks! :bow

the next important chapter is the cc thread. there are 11 finished cc reports not added to the scroll and honor, 10 of them belong to the unarchived cc75. i'd be soooo happy if Jan (pzm) joined us and take the responsibility for the ccs (even if no new ccs will be announced for a while)

i strongly recommend everybody saving those threads from the jp's forums what you think to be important, as nobody knows how long these forums will be available, hopefully till the next paying period (in may 2020, i guess), but there is no guarantee that the spams won't burry down everything eventually, if pzm gave up the moderation :dunno :2cents

Re: what to copy to the new forum?

Posted: 2019-10-09 13:42, Wednesday
by Parabellum
:howdy csaba, just for my understanding: do you recommend us to copy the unarchived CC75 in the new forum? Each his own run?

Re: what to copy to the new forum?

Posted: 2019-10-09 14:11, Wednesday
by lvjtn
Parabellum wrote:
2019-10-09 13:42, Wednesday
:howdy csaba, just for my understanding: do you recommend us to copy the unarchived CC75 in the new forum? Each his own run?
the announcement is copied, but the other threads? :huh i have no idea what to do, let's hope Jan will join and tells what he prefers. just in case, i saved the 11 finished threads, and i'll save the unfinished threads too. maybe just the final aars should be copied into one post :dunno nevermind, what i recommend is saving any contents with your browser, because nobody knows how long these materials will be available. hopefully for 5-6 months, but there is no guarantee

otoh, if somebody wants to copy his current /finished cc thread, i don't see any reason why he shouldn't

Re: Forum design

Posted: 2019-11-05 18:21, Tuesday
by mythos
Something different:
Would it be possible to unlock the CC archives of JP's ? So that people (at least the active ones) can copy-paste their CC threads (at least the completed ones) over here.

The point of the CC Forums has always been a thing of checking
- core
- core development
- strategy
of other generals, and i guess others have done so too, anyway the threads are a source for various information (i.e. some people like you and Jan made notes and suggestions how a scenario could be improved) - however the new forums are rather empty yet.

Re: what to copy to the new forum?

Posted: 2019-11-05 19:02, Tuesday
by lvjtn
mythos wrote:
2019-11-05 18:21, Tuesday
Would it be possible to unlock the CC archives of JP's ?
theoretically: yes, it's possible
practically: only admins can unlock a forum (mods can only lock/unlock a thread), so you should ask Jeff, Whoopy or Adler. good luck! :naughty

and yes, i miss the detailed aars with screenshots and/or good stories, so i recommend to save at least your own threads from your browser

(btw. lots of screenshots are also dead, as too much file hosting sites go offline eventually :sad )

Re: what to copy to the new forum?

Posted: 2019-11-05 20:14, Tuesday
by mythos
I see :(

Alright - i actually don't have much to copy (only ever finished 3 CCs so far :o ), will do that soon.

Re: what to copy to the new forum?

Posted: 2019-11-06 16:58, Wednesday
by randowe
I that light :idea i would like to copy my playtest of REDrake's DEUTSCHE MARINEKORPS CAMPAIGN for REDPAC Efile to thew forum. I really liked the report and still like it with all the pictures and legthy texts and i would like to keep it. Do you think it is worth to copy or to much spam?
I swear, that will be the only play report i'd like to copy :lol

Re: what to copy to the new forum?

Posted: 2019-11-06 17:52, Wednesday
by mythos
Your AARs are very well written, thus i would say: copy all your playthreads that you like :yep

Re: what to copy to the new forum?

Posted: 2019-11-06 18:24, Wednesday
by lvjtn
yes, Clemens reading your aars is always very useful for players, so please, do it :yes