Campaigns: compulsory upgrade of core units!

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Cat Leon
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Campaigns: compulsory upgrade of core units!

Post by Cat Leon » 2020-01-15 06:40, Wednesday

:howdy
To provide more realism for some campaigns I suggest introducing compulsory upgrade of core units in campaigns before deploying core units on a map! How should it work? Every time when you want to deploy any of your core units on a map in a scenario, OpenGen.exe checks unit expiration date. If this date expired, a player receives the message: "Sorry, You cannot deploy this unit because its date expired. You have to upgrade that unit before deploying"! In this case if you want to use your core units you have to upgrade them.
Just an example. Assume that you play Polish campaign that starts in Sept 1939 while the next scenario is "Defence of Tobruk (1941)". As now, a player is not obliged to upgrade core units and we could see some Polish infantry and cavalry in Polish prewar uniform, TKS tankette, 75mm wz02/26 guns etc. in North Africa. This is nonsense of course but campaign designer cannot influence it! However with compulsory upgrade, a player will have to upgrade the core units if he wants to use his experienced units in the game. Then a player continues the campaign with correct Polish units in British desert uniform (with desert iconset of course) and with other British equipment etc. Same problem for example with Dutch campaign that starts in Europe in 1940, continues in Indonesia in 1941-1942 and then again in Europe in 1944-1945! The list of examples can be continue.

Compulsory upgrade can work always or optionally. In this case it's possible to use "compulsory_upgrade" as generic variable in the respective scn_name.cfg file. Then if compulsory_upgrade=1, the core units with expiration dates that expired before a scenario date can be deployed only after upgrading, otherwise OpenGen.exe works as now.
An example:
* generic $variables
ai_refit_free=1
compulsory_upgrade=1
...
What do you think? :huh
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Wonderdoctor
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Re: Campaigns: compulsory upgrade of core units!

Post by Wonderdoctor » 2020-01-15 12:19, Wednesday

Cat Leon wrote:
2020-01-15 06:40, Wednesday
What do you think? :huh
I like it :yes
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Re: Campaigns: compulsory upgrade of core units!

Post by Parabellum » 2020-01-15 15:16, Wednesday

That sounds interesting at first glance. But for me only at first.

I would like to point out that this regulation strongly interferes with the prestige management of every campaign.
What happens if a player has too little prestige because, for example, he plays with a very low level of prestige or is a very bad player who constantly repairs his units during a scenario? Does he have to sell units just to be able to upgrade?

It would also have to be defined what exactly is to be understood by the "expiry date". Should it be the time when the production (e.g. of a tank) was stopped?

I like to play with units that have long exceeded their technical zenith. It's fun to see how long they can stand up to new technology on the opponent's side.

Therefore, the proposal for a mandatory update is not approved by me.
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Re: Campaigns: compulsory upgrade of core units!

Post by mythos » 2020-01-16 04:21, Thursday

I share Para's thoughts:
- it is fun to play with older equipment
- players at lower Prestige settings will find it difficult to upgrade everytime a piece of equipment expires - and if there is enough pp to constantly upgrade at i.e. 25%, then there will be superfluous amounts of pp at 100%
- adding: every side of WW2 was using equipment on an availability basis, so i.e. the Germans used the Bf 109 F until the end of the war, despite it being out of production by '43 ; or the Russians used captured Panthers and Tigers, which they never produced themselves ; or on a different scale, StuGs/SUs/T-34s were used far into the '80s and even beyond, despite being out of production for decades

The idea sounds interesting at first, but imho doesn't make much sense outside of the infantry-class, and there it will be tricky to balance a campaign.
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Re: Campaigns: compulsory upgrade of core units!

Post by Cat Leon » 2020-01-16 08:46, Thursday

As I said the compulsory (mandatory or obligatory as you more like) upgrade can work optionally! It's possible to use "compulsory_upgrade" as generic variable in the respective scn_name.cfg file. If campaign maker wants to use this feature, he has to set compulsory_upgrade=1 and provide some additional prestige for upgrading in respective scenarios. It will ensure a balanced campaign. Two examples to make it more clear.

Polish campaign
-----------------------------
scn1 (Poland 1939) compulsory_upgrade=0
scn2 (Poland 1939) compulsory_upgrade=0
scn3 (Poland 1939) compulsory_upgrade=0
scn4 (Poland 1939) compulsory_upgrade=0
scn5 (Tobruk 1941) compulsory_upgrade=1 + additional prestige
scn6 (Monte Cassino 1944) compulsory_upgrade=0/1 (additional prestige)
scn7 (Monte Cassino 1944) compulsory_upgrade=0
scn8 (Western Europe 1944) compulsory_upgrade=0/1 (additional prestige)
scn9 (Western Europe 1944) compulsory_upgrade=0
scn10 (Western Europe 1945) compulsory_upgrade=0

it's obvious that scn1-scn4 (Poland 1939) don't require a compulsory upgrade (compulsory_upgrade=0 in scn1.cfg-scn4.cfg). The qualitative changes occur in scn5 (Tobruk 1941): new uniform and units stats for infantry, new British equipment. Agree that Polish cavalry in prewar uniform would look very strange in the desert! :shock That is why campaign maker sets compulsory_upgrade=1 in scn5.cfg and some additional prestige for upgrading. As for scn6-scn10, compulsory upgrade is in fact not required (same uniform, same British equipment). However campaign maker may set compulsory_upgrade=1 and additional prestige if he wants a player to use the most strong infantry and only modern equipment!

Dutch campaign
-----------------------------
scn1 (Europe 1940) compulsory_upgrade=0
scn2 (Europe 1940) compulsory_upgrade=0
scn3 (Indonesia 1942) compulsory_upgrade= compulsory_upgrade=1 + additional prestige
scn4 (Indonesia 1942) compulsory_upgrade=0
scn5 (Indonesia 1942) compulsory_upgrade=0
scn6 (Europe 1944) compulsory_upgrade=compulsory_upgrade=1 + additional prestige
scn7 (Europe 1944) compulsory_upgrade=0
scn8 (Europe 1945) compulsory_upgrade=0

scn1-scn2 don't require a compulsory upgrade (compulsory_upgrade=0 in scn1.cfg-scn2.cfg). Starting with scn3 (Indonesia 1942) it is necessary to change infantry uniform and replace the equipment that was not used by KNIL (compulsory_upgrade=1 in scn3.cfg + additional prestige). scn4,scn5 don't require a compulsory upgrade (compulsory_upgrade=0 in scn4.cfg,scn5.cfg). In scn6 (Europe 1944) campaign maker also sets "compulsory_upgrade=1" in scn6.cfg + additional prestige: new uniform and units stats for infantry and new British equipment.
scn7,scn8 don't require a compulsory upgrade.

As for "expiry date". I see no problem with it: each unit has "expiry date" in an Equipment file and this date should be compared with the date of scenario. Yes, this feature is most important for infantry-class but it can be useful for other classes too! For example a player bought TKS tankette and stubbornly doesn't update it until 1945 (he is probably testing how TKS stands against Tiger :) ).
:phew I have tried to allay any fears about the compulsory upgrade feature...
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Re: Campaigns: compulsory upgrade of core units!

Post by connor71 » 2020-01-16 09:51, Thursday

Good idea
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Re: Campaigns: compulsory upgrade of core units!

Post by Puma » 2020-01-16 11:38, Thursday

Design and create a campaign anyway you like, if players like it they will play it, if they don’t like it they are not forced to play it.
I would not use it in design and would disable it if I wanted to play the campaign.
If Luis wants to add another option to the txt file it will have no impact on me or other designers/players so it is a decision for Luis.
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Re: Campaigns: compulsory upgrade of core units!

Post by mythos » 2020-01-17 04:04, Friday

Cat Leon wrote:
2020-01-16 08:46, Thursday
As I said the compulsory [..] upgrade can work optionally!
Yes, i understood it as optional at design time.
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